Binance explained (A beginner's guide to getting started ...

CDCs business model explained - And how this benefits you

wanted to make this post a long time ago but never found the time around it. Right now I feel it justifies a simplified version where I think people can do their own calculations and assumptions. Please put your own opinion on it. But I hope this explains a bit why CDCs decision was good (for them) but not for us.
  1. MCO card
Their original idea turned a flop. Why? The Cashbacks.
I loved the cashbacks but from a business perspective they made no sense: - Other companies cap the cashbacks because they are loss making. - CDC had to share creditcard revenue with AND visa AND wirecard. - Cashbacks are used for crosselling (get a bank account, insurance, loan for your house etc). The lifetime value of a customer makes it viable. - A big chunck of their customers (EU) live in an area where creditcard companies’ shares on purchases are capped at lower rate than the cashbacks.
I think this point needs almost no further explanation as the increases costs to get a card clearly show CDC understand this as well.
  1. Earn
Industry standard rates, but unsustainable. If you take someones money for interest that means you earn a higher interest rate on that money than you give back.
Might be possible with crypto on the short term but very risky. Arguments that you can get these rates on for example SGD are invalid as SGD is not pegged to BTC.
Some rates such as the rate for CRO is indeed sustainable for CDC. Don’t want to go too far in it as other people will be more knowledgable in this than me, but: something about interest rate & inflation.
  1. Credit
Only use of this is to use it for leverage trading. If you need a loan you wont lock 100% to receive 50%.
  1. The Exchange
Their mastermove, and with a domain like the ability to get very big. Google how much Binance made and you know the possibilities.
On top of this they created their own monopoly on CRO. Making sure all tokens held by customers are effectively locked.
This means they will earn money twice: - On the trading fee; and - On selling you the crypto used to pay the trading fee.
  1. Financing themselves
I suspect the four elements described above are all loss-making as of now. But who cares? CDC managed to do what every company dreams of: providing their own financing by printing money.
Best of it: 1) they control the price, 2) no need to pay it back, and 3) no need to pay interest. Not even triple A countries with negative interest rates get this good of a deal as they won’t be able to refinance those bonds into perpetuity.
We do not own shares, we own tokens. To make this a valuable investment you want your tokens to go up in value. I know as of now both are up in value but looking longer term here.
The value of your tokens can be drilled down to the following: supply and demand.
First of all, I am in favour of CDC using a fractional reserve, or capital requirement to reinvest your money. Ofcourse with checks on their risk profile but how else are they gonna make money from your stakes. It cant be only giving cashbacks and free cards.
With or without a reserve the value of MCO would go up eventually. - locking cards causes buying pressure - card cashbacks cause buying pressure (assuming not resold immediately) - Dynamic pricing of cards would cause selling pressure (when CDC is out of MCO it is up to you to sell, some people are happy to sell for $10, keeping the same card and basically freeing an extra card (or 5 - fractional reserve) for someone else. Others want to do it later.
Significant gains on your MCO might take long with this process and is based on adoption but would come.
The problem here is the absence of the long term incentive for CRO holders. Right now CRO made very good gains. Personally I don’t understand why but also I cant complain about what it gave me.
But in the long term CDC controls the supply. You will never get the good deal you wanted because there is such an absolute whale on the market. See how a bitcoin whale can influence the price of a token and compare their small share to the massive amount of CRO held by CDC. This will not be viable until the market controls the token - which is far, far in the future.
Just my thoughts. Do with it as you please. You may not agree, which is your good right. But I hope it makes you think critically about what you are investing in and about the implications of a swap. As in my opinion the upside potential of MCO gets moved from the token investor to CDC.
A smart move from their side, one that I totally understand. But there are clearly some losers here (me, us).
submitted by sir_grumpy to Crypto_com [link] [comments]

[Part 1] KAVA Historical AMA Tracker! (Questions & Answers)

ATTN: These AMA questions are from Autumn 2019 - before the official launch of the Kava Mainnet, and it's fungible Kava Token.
These questions may no longer be relevant to the current Kava landscape, however, they do provide important historical background on the early origins of Kava Labs.
Please note, that there are several repeat questions/answers.


Kava is a decentralized DEFI project, why did you implement the countries restrictions to run the node? Will there be such restrictions by the time of the mainnet?


According to the project description it has been indicated that staking reward (in KAVA tokens) varies from 3 to 20% per annum. But how will you fight with inflation?

We all know how altcoins prices are falling, and their bottom is not visible. And in fact, we can get an increase in the number of tokens for staking, but not an increase in the price of the token itself and become a long-term investor.

  • Answer: Kava is both inflationary with block rewards, but deflationary when we burn CDP fees. Only stakers who bond their Kava receive inflationary rewards - users and traders on exchanges do not get this. In this way, rewards are inflated, but given to stakers and removed value from the traders who are speculating like a tax. The Deflationary structure of fees should help counterbalance the price drops from inflation if any. In the long-term as more CDPs are used, Kava should be a deflationary asset by design if all things go well


In your allocation it is indicated that 28.48% of the tokens are in the "Token treasury" - where will these tokens be directed?

  • Answer: Investors in financing rounds prior to the IEO have entered into long-term lock-up agreements in-line with their belief in Kava’s exciting long-term growth potential and to allow the projects token price to find stability. Following the IEO, the only tokens in circulation will be those sold through the IEO on Binance and the initial Treasury tokens released.
  • No private sale investor tokens are in circulation until the initial release at the end of Q1 2020 and then gradually over the [36] months The initial Treasury tokens in circulation will be used for a mixture of ecosystem grants, the expenses associated with the IEO as well as initial market making requirements as is typical with a listing of this size. Kava remains well financed to execute our roadmap following the IEO and do not envisage any need for any material financings or token sales for the foreseeable future.


Such a platform (with loans and stable coins) is just the beginning since these aspects are a small part of many Defi components. Will your team have a plan to implement other functions, such as derivatives, the dex platform once the platform is successfully launched?

  • Answer: We believe Kava is the foundation for many future defi products. We need stable coins, oracles, and other infrastructure first that Kava provides. Once we have that, we can apply these to derivatives and other synthetics more easily. For example, we can use the price feeds and USDX to enable users to place 100x leverage bets with each other. If they both lock funds into payment channels, then they can use a smart contract based on the price feed to do the 100x trade/bet automatically without counter party risk. In this way, Kava can expand its financial product offerings far beyond loans and stable coins in the future.


There are several options for using USDX on the KAVA platform, one of which is Margin Trading / Leverage. Is this a selection function or a compulsory function? Wondering since there are some investors who don`t like margin. What is the level of leverage and how does a CDP auction work?

  • Answer: This is a good #Q . Kava simply provides loans to users in USDX stable coins. What the users do is completely up to them. They can use the loans for everyday payments if they like. Leverage and hedging are just the main use cases we foresee - there are many ways people can use the CDP platform and USDX.


Most credit platforms do not work well in the current market. What will you do to attract more people to use your platform and the services you provide? Thank you

  • Answer: Most credit platforms do not work well in the current market? I think that isn't correct at least for DeFi. Even in the bear market, MakerDao and Compound saw good user growth. Regardless, our efforts at Kava to build the market are fairly product and BD focused. 1) we build more integrations of assets and expand financial services to attract new communities and users. 2) we focus on building partnerships with high quality teams to promote and build Kava's core user base. Kava is just the developer. Our great partners like Ripple, Stakewith.Us, P2P, Binance - they have the real users that demand Kava. They are like our system integrators that package Kava up nicely and present it to their users. In order to grow, we need to deepen our partnerships and bring in new ones around the world.


KAVA functions as a reserve currency in situations where the system is undercollateralized. In such cases new KAVA is minted and used to buy USDX off the market until USDX becomes safely overcollateralized.

Meaning, there will be no max supply of KAVA?

  • Answer: Yes, there is no max supply of Kava.


Why Kava?

  • Answer: ...because people are long BTC and the best way to go long BTC without giving up custody is Kava's platform. Because it is MakerDao for bitcoin. Bitcoin has a 10x market cap of ETH and Maker is 10x the size of Kava. I think we're pretty undervalued right now.


How do you plan to make liquidity in Kava?

  • Answer: Working with Binance for the IEO and as the first exchange for KAVA to trade on will be a huge boost in increasing the liquidity of trading KAVA.


Most crypto investors or crypto users prefer easy transaction and low fees, what can we expect from KAVA about this?

  • Answer: Transaction fees are very low and confirm if seconds. The user experience is quite good on Tendermint-based blockchains.


How do I become a note validator on KavA?


It is great to know that KAVA is the first DEFI-supported project sponsored by Binance Launchpad, do you think this is the meaning that CZ brings: Opening the DEFI era, as a leader, you feel like how ?

  • Answer: We are the first DeFi platform that Launchpad has supported. We are a very strategic blockchain for major crypto like BNB. Kava's platform will bring more utility to the users of BNB and the Binance DEX. It feels good of course to have validation from the biggest players in the space like Cosmos, Ripple, CZ/Binance, etc.


Since decentralized finance applications is already dominating, how do you intend to surpass those leading in the market?

  • Answer: The leaders are only addressing ethereum. BTC, XRP, BNB, ATOM is a much larger set to go after that current players cannot.


What does Ripple play in the Kava's ecosystem, since Ripple is like a top tier company and it’s impressive that you are partnered with them?

  • Answer: Ripple is an equity investor in Kava and a big supporter of our work in cross-chain settlement research and implementations. Ripple's XRP is a great asset in terms of users and liquidity that the Kava platform can use. In addition, Ripple's money service business customers are asking for a stable coin for remittances to avoid the currency heading risk that XRP presents. Ripple will not use USDC or other stable coins, but they are open to using USDX as it can be XRP-backed.


Considering the connectivity, Libra could be the biggest competitor if KAVA leverages interchain for efficiency.

  • Answer: With regard to USDX, it is important to understand the users interacting with the Kava blockchain have no counterparty that people could go after for legal actions. A user getting a USDX loan has no counterparty. The software holds the collateral and creates the loan. The only laws that would apply are to the very users that are using the system.


Wonder how KAVA will compete with the tech giants

  • Answer: Libra is running into extreme issues with the US Senate and regulators. Even the G7-G20 groups are worried. Its important to understand that Libra is effectively a permissioned system. Only big companies that law makers can go after are able to run nodes. In Kava, nodes can be run by anyway and our nodes are based all over the world. It's incredibly hard for a law maker to take down Kava because they would need to find and legally enforce hundreds of business in different jurisdictions to comply. We have an advantage in this way over the larger projects like Libra or Clayton.


In long-term, what's the strategy that KAVA has for covering the traditional finance users as well? Especially regarding the "stability"

  • Answer: Technical risk is unavoidable for DeFi. Only time will tell if a system is trustworthy and its never 100% that it will not fail or be hacked. This is true with banks and other financial systems as well. I think for DeFi, the technical risk needs to be priced in to the expected returns to compensate the market. DeFi does have a better user experience - requiring no credit score, identity, or KYC over centralized solutions.
  • With our multi-collateral CDP system, even with it overcollateralized, people can get up to 3x leverage on assets. Take 100 USD in BTC, get a USDX loan for 66 USDX, then buy $66 BTC and do another loan - you can do this with a program to get 3x leverage with the same risk profile. This is enough for most people.
  • However, it will be possible once we have Kava's CDP platform to extend it into products that offer undercollateralized financial products. For example, if USER 1 + USER 2 use payment channels to lock up their USDX, they can use Kava's price feeds to place bets between each other using their locked assets. They can bet that for every $1 BTC/USD moves, the other party owes 3x. In this way we can even do 100x leverage or 1000x leverage and create very fun products for people to trade with. Importantly, even in places where margin trading is regulated and forbidden, Kava's platform will remain open access and available.


In long-term, what's the strategy that KAVA has for covering the traditional finance users as well? Especially regarding the "stability"

  • Answer: Kava believes that stable coins should be backed not just by crypto or fiat, but any widely used, highly liquid asset. We think in the future the best stablecoin would be backed by a basket of very stable currencies that include crypto and fiat or whatever the market demands.


Compound, maker they're trying to increase their size via the competitive interests rates. THough it shows good return in terms of growth rate, still it's for short-term. Wonder other than financial advantage, KAVA has more for the users' needs?

  • Answer: Robert, the CEO of Compound is an investor and advisor to Kava. We think what Compound does with money markets is amazing and hope to integrate when they support more than just Ethereum assets. Kava's advantage vs others is to provide basic DeFi services like returns on crypto and stable coins today when no other platform offers that. Many platforms support ETH, but no platform can support BTC, XRP, BNB, and ATOM in a decentralized way without requiring centralized custody of these assets.


The vast majority of the cryptocurrency community's priorities is symbolic pricing. When prices rise, the community rejoices and grows. When they fall, many people begin to cast in a negative way. How will KAVA solve the negative problem when the price goes down? What is your plan to strengthen and develop the community to persuade more people to look at the product than the price?

  • Answer: We believe price is an important factor for faith in the market. One of Kava's key initiatives was selecting only long-term partners that are willing to work with kava for 2 years. That is why even after 6 months, 0 private investor or kava team tokens will be liquid on the market.
  • We believe not in fast pumps and then dumps that destroy faith, but rather we try and operate the best we can for long-term sustainable growth over time. It's always hard to control factors in the market, and some factors are out of our control such as BTC price correlations, etc - however, we treat this like a public company stock - we want long-term growth of Kava and try to make sure our whole community of Kava holders is aligned with that the best we can.


Do you have any plans to attract non-crypto investors to Kava and how? What are the measures to increase awareness of kava in non-crypto space?

  • Answer: We are 100% focused on crypto, not the general market. We solve the problems of crypto traders and investors - not the average grandma who needs a payment solution. Kava is geared for decentralized leverage and hedging.


Adoption is crucial for all projects and crypto companies, what strategy are you gonna use/follow or u are now following to get Kava adopted and used by many people all over the world?

Revenue is an important aspect for all projects in order to survive and keep the project/company up and running for long term, what are the ways that Kava generates profits/revenue and what is its revenue model?

  • Answer: We have already partnered with several large exchanges, long-term VCs, and large projects like Ripple and Cosmos. These are key ways for us to grow our community. As we build support for more assets, we plan to promote Kava's services to those new communities of traders.
  • Kava generates revenue as more people use the platform. As the platform is used, KAVA tokens are burned when users pay stability fees. This deflates the total supply of Kava and should in most cases give rise to the value of KAVA like a stock-buyback in the public markets.


In order to be success in Loan project of Cryptocurrency, I think marketing is very important to make people using this service without any registration. What is main strategy for marketing?

  • Answer: Our main strategy is to build a great experience and offer products that are not available to communities with demand. Currently no DeFi products can serve BTC users for example. Centralized exchanges can, but nothing truly trustless. Kava's platform can finally give the vast audiences of BTC, BNB, and ATOM holders access to core DeFi services they cannot get on their own due to the smart contract limitations of those platforms.


Currently, some project have policies for their ambassadors to create a contribution and attract recognition for the project! So the KAVA team plans to implement policies and incentives for KAVA ambassadors?

  • Answer: Yes, we will be creating a KAVA ambassador program and releasing that soon. Please follow our social media channels to learn about it in the coming weeks.


Currently there are so many KAVA tokens sold on exchanges, why is this happening while KAVA is going to IEO on Binance? Are those KAVA codes fake or not?

  • Answer: For everyone's safety, please understand Kava tokens do not exist yet and they will only exist starting with the Binance IEO. Any other token listings or offerings of Kava are not supported by Kava Labs and I highly discourage you all from trying to get them there. It is most likely a big scam. Please only trust Binance for this.


KAVA have two tokens, the first is called Kava - a governance and staking token; the second is called USDX - an algorithmically managed crypto-backed stable coin. What are the advantages of USDX compared to other stablecoins such as: USDT, USDC, TUSD, GUSD, ...?

  • Answer: USDX is one of the few stablecoins to be fully backed by crypto-assets. This means that we do not deal with fiat to back the value, and thus we don't have some of the issues when it comes to storing fiat funds with banks and custodians. This also makes our product fully digital and built for the future of crypto growth.


As a CEO, does your background in Esports and Gaming industry help anything to your management and development of KAVA Labs?

  • Answer: Esports no. But having been a multi-time venture-backed foundeCEO and have gone through the start-up phase before has made creating and running a 2nd company easier. Right now Kava is still small, Fnatic had over 80 employees. It was at a larger scale. I would say developing software is much more than doing the hardware at


Why did Kava choose to launch IEO on Binance and not other exchanges like: Kucoin, Houbi, Gate, ....?

  • Answer: Kava had a lot of interest from exchanges to partner with for IEO. We decided based on a lot of factors such as userbase, diverse exposure across multiple regions and countries, and an amazing team that provides so much insight into so many communities such as this one. Binance has been a tremendous partner and we also look forward to continuing our partnership far into the future.


Currently if Search on coinmarketcap has 3 types of stablecoins bearing the USDX symbol (but these 3 stablecoins are no information). So, what will KAVA do to let users know that Kava's USDX is another stablecoin?

  • Answer: All these USDX have no volume or listings. We will be on Binance. I am not worried.


In addition to the Token Allocation for Binance Launchpad, what is the Token Treasury in the Initial Circulating Supply?

  • Answer: This is controlled by Kava Labs, but with the big cash we have saved from fundraising, we see no reason why these tokens would be sold on the market. The treasury tokens are for use in grants, ecosystem growth initiatives, development, and other incentive programs to drive adoption of the platform.


How you will compete with your competitors? Currently i don't see much but for future how you will maintain this consistency ? No doubt it is Great and Unique project, what is the main problem that #KAVA is currently facing?

  • Answer: Because our industry is just starting out, I don't like to think of them as our direct competitors. We are all working to grow the size of the pie rather than get a larger slice from a small pie. The one thing that we believe will allow us to stand apart is the community we are building. Being able to utilize our own community along with Cosmos and our other partners like Binance for the IEO, we have a strong footing to get a lot of early users onto our platform. Also, we are also focusing on growing Kava internationally particularly Asia. We hope to build our platform for an even larger userbase than just the west.


How do you explain your project to a random person who has never heard of your project?

  • Answer: non-crypto = Kava is a lending platform for users of cryptocurrencies.
  • crypto = Kava is a cross-chain DeFi platform for loans and stablecoins backed by BTC, BNB, XRP, ATOM and other major cryptocurrencies.


Will KAVA team have a plan on implementing DAO module on your platform since its efficiency on autonomy, decentralization and transparency?

  • Answer: All voting is already transparent on the Kava blockchain. We approved a number of proposals on our test net.


how to use usdx token :only for your platform or you have plan to use usdx for payment ?

  • Answer: Payments is a nice use case, but demand for crypto payments is still small. We may choose to focus here later if demand for crypto payments increases. Currently it is quite small with the bulk of use remaining in trading and speculative use cases.


Do you have plans to spread KAVA ecosystem across other continents. if yes, what are the strategies and how can I as a community member contribute to making it possible?

  • Answer: We are already across many continents - I don't think we are in antarctica yet. Africa might be light on nodes as well. I think as we grow on major exchanges like Binance, new node operators will get interested and help decentralize Kava further.


Maker's CDP lending system is on top in this market and its Dominance is currently sitting on 64.90 % , how kava will compete will maker and compound?

  • Answer: adding assets like bitcoin which have more value and more users than ETH. It's a bigger market that Maker cannot compete with Kava in.


Currently, the community is too concerned about the price. As prices rise, the community rejoice and grow, when falling, many people start throwing negatively. So what is KAVA's solution to getting people to focus on the project rather than the price of the token?

What is your plan to strengthen and grow the community to persuade more individuals to look at the product than the price?

  • Answer: We also share similar concerns as price and price direction is always a huge factor in the crypto industry. A lot of people of course are very short-term focused on flipping for bigger profits. One of the solutions, and what Kava has done, is to make sure that everything structured is for the long-term. So that makes sure that our investors and employees are all focused on long-term gains and growth. Locking vesting periods are part of that alignment. Another thing is that we at Kava are very transparent in our progress and development. We will be regularly posting updates within our own communities to allow our users and followers to keep up with everything we're up to. Please follow us or look at our github if you're interested!


How did Kava get on Piexgo?

  • Answer: We did not work with Piexgo. We have not distributed tokens to any exchange other than Binance. I cannot speak to what is going on there, but I would be very wary of what is happening there.


Why was the 1st round price so much lower than the current price

  • Answer: It is natural to worry that early investors got better pricing and could dump on the market. I can assure you that our investors are in this for the long-term. All private sale rounds signed 2 year contracts to run validators - and if they don't they forfeit their tokens. You can compare our release schedule to any other project. We have one of the most restricted circulating supply schedules of any project EVER and its because all our investors are commiting to the long-term success of the project and believe in Kava.
  • About the pricing itself - it is always a function of traction like for any start-up. When we made our public announcement about the project in June, we were only a 4 man team with just some github code. We could basically run a network with a single node, our own. Which is relatively worthless. I think our pricing of Kava at this time was justified. We were effectively a seed-stage company without a product or working network.
  • By July we made severe progress on the development side and the business side. We successful launched our first test net with the help of over 70 validator business partners around the world. We had a world-wide network of hundreds of people supporting us with people and resources at this point and the risk we would fail in launching a working product was much lower. At this point, the Kava project was valued at $25M. At this point, we had many VCs and investors asking for Kava tokens that we turned away. We only accepted validators that would help us launch the network. It was our one and only goal.
  • Fast forward to today, the IEO price simply reflects the traction and market demand for Kava. Our ecosystem is much larger than it was even a month ago. We have support from Ripple, Cosmos, and Binance amongst other large crypto projects. We have 100+ validators securing our network with very sophisticated high-availability set-ups. In addition, our ecosystem partners have built products for Kava - such as block explorers and others are working on native integrations to wallets and exchanges. Launchpad will be very big for us. Kava is a system designed to cater to crypto traders and investors and in a matter of days we distributed via Binance Launchpad and put in the hands of 130+ countries and tens of thousands of users overnight. It doesn't get more DeFi than that.


What is the treasury used for?

  • Answer: Kava's treasury is for ecosystem growth activities.
  • Investors in financing rounds prior to the IEO have entered into long-term lock-up agreements in-line with their belief in Kava’s exciting long-term growth potential and to allow the projects token price to find stability. Following the IEO, the only tokens in circulation will be those sold through the IEO on Binance and the initial Treasury tokens released. No private sale investor tokens are in circulation until the initial release at the end of Q1 2020 and then gradually over the [36] months The initial Treasury tokens in circulation will be used for a mixture of ecosystem grants, the expenses associated with the IEO as well as initial market making requirements as is typical with a listing of this size. Kava remains well financed to execute our roadmap following the IEO and do not envisage any need for any material financings or token sales for the foreseeable future.


Everyone have heard about the KAVA token, and read about it. But it would be great to hear your explanation about it. What is the Kava token, what is it's utility? :)

  • Answer: The Kava token plays many roles. KAVA is the native staking token of the Kava blockchain and is used for securing the network. KAVA is delegated to validators, basically professional node operators that run highly-available servers to secure the Kava blockchain. The top 100 validators by weight of staked KAVA earn block rewards that range from 3-20% APR based on the total amount staked in the network. These rewards are split between the validators and the KAVA holders.
  • When users of the platform repay their loans, they must a stability fee (a percentage of the loan) in KAVA tokens. These tokens are burned by the system, effectively deflating the total supply overtime as more users use the CDP system.
  • KAVA is also the primary token used in governance of the platform. KAVA token holders can vote on key system parameter changes and upgrades such as what assets to support, how much USDX in total can be loaned by the system, what the debt-to-collateral ratio needs to be, the stability fees, etc. KAVA holders have a very important responsibility to govern the system well.
  • Lastly, Kava functions as a "Lender of Last Resort" meaning if USDX ever gets undercollateralized because the underlying asset prices drop suddenly and the system manages it poorly, KAVA is inflated in these emergency situations and used to purchase USDX off the market until USDX reaches a state of being over collateralized again. KAVA holders have incentive to only support the good high quality assets so risk of the system is managed responsibly.


No matter how perfect and technically thought-out a DeFi protocol is, it cannot be completely protected from any unplanned situations (such as extreme market fluctuations, some legal issues, etc.)

Ecosystem members, in particular the validators on whom KAVA relies on fundamental decision-making rights, should be prepared in advance for any "critical" scenario. Considering that, unlike the same single-collateral MakerDAO, KAVA will be a multi-collateral CDP system, this point is probably even more relevant here.

In this regard, please answer the following question: Does KAVA have a clear risk management model or strategy and how decentralized is / will it be?

  • Answer: Simialar to other CDP systems and MakerDAO we do have a system freeze function where in cases of extreme issues, we can stop the auction mechanisms and return all collateral.


Did you know that "Kava" is translated into Ukrainian like "Coffee"? I personally do love drinking coffee. I plunge into the fantasy world. Why did you name your project "Kava" What is the story behind it? What idea / fantasy did your project originate from, which inspired you to create it?

  • Answer: Kava is coffee to you.
  • Kava is Hippopotamus to Japanese.
  • Cava is a region in Spain
  • Kava is also a root that is used in tea which makes your mouth numb.
  • Kava is also crow in Hindi.
  • Kava last but not least is a DeFi platform launching on Binance :)
  • We liked the sound of Kava it was as simple as that. It doesn't have much meaning in the USA where I am from. But it's short sweet and when we were just starting, was available for a reasonable price


What incentives does a lender get if a person chooses to pay with KAVA? Is there a discount on interest rates on the loan amount if you pay with KAVA? Do I have to pass the KYC procedure to apply for a small loan?

  • Answer: There is no KYC for Kava. Its an open blockchain software platform where anyone with a computer can connect to it and use it.


Let's say, I decided to bond my cryptocurrency and got USDX stable coins. For now, it`s an unknown stable coin (let's be honest). Do you plan to add USDX to other famous exchanges? Also, you have spoken about the USDX staking and that the percentage would be higher than for other stable coins. Please be so kind to tell us what is the average annual interest rate and what are the conditions of staking?

  • Answer: Yes we have several large exchanges willing to support USDX from the start. Binance/Binance-DEX is one you should all know ;)
  • The average annual rates for USDX will depend on market conditions. The rate is actually provided by the CDP fees users pay. The system reallocates a portion of those fees to USDX users. In times when USDX use needs to grow, the rates will be higher to incentivize use. When demand is strong, we can reduce the rates.


Why should i use and choose Kava's loan if i can use the similar margin trade on Binance?

  • Answer: If margin is available to you and you trust the exchange then you should do whatever is cheaper. For a US citizen and others, margin is often not available and if it is, only for a few asset types as collateral. Kava aims to address this and offer this to everyone.


The IEO price is $ 0.46 while the price of the first private sale is $ 0.075. Don't you think that such price gap can negatively affect the liquidity of the token and take away the desire to buy a token on the exchange?

  • Answer: It is natural to worry that early investors got better pricing and could dump on the market. I can assure you that our investors are in this for the long-term. All private sale rounds signed 2 year contracts to run validators - and if they don't they forfeit their tokens. You can compare our release schedule to any other project. We have one of the most restricted circulating supply schedules of any project EVER and its because all our investors are commiting to the long-term success of the project and believe in Kava.
  • About the pricing itself - it is always a function of traction like for any start-up. When we made our public announcement about the project in June, we were only a 4 man team with just some github code. We could basically run a network with a single node, our own. Which is relatively worthless. I think our pricing of Kava at this time was justified. We were effectively a seed-stage company without a product or working network.
  • By July we made severe progress on the development side and the business side. We successful launched our first test net with the help of over 70 validator business partners around the world. We had a world-wide network of hundreds of people supporting us with people and resources at this point and the risk we would fail in launching a working product was much lower. At this point, the Kava project was valued at $25M. At this point, we had many VCs and investors asking for Kava tokens that we turned away. We only accepted validators that would help us launch the network. It was our one and only goal.
  • Fast forward to today, the IEO price simply reflects the traction and market demand for Kava. Our ecosystem is much larger than it was even a month ago. We have support from Ripple, Cosmos, and Binance amongst other large crypto projects. We have 100+ validators securing our network with very sophisticated high-availability set-ups. In addition, our ecosystem partners have built products for Kava - such as block explorers and others are working on native integrations to wallets and exchanges. Launchpad will be very big for us. Kava is a system designed to cater to crypto traders and investors and in a matter of days we distributed via Binance Launchpad and put in the hands of 130+ countries and tens of thousands of users overnight. It doesn't get more DeFi than that.
  • TLDR - I think KAVA is undervalued and the liquid supply of tokens is primarily from the IEO so its a safer bet than other IEOs. If the price drops, it will be from the overall market conditions or fellow IEO users not due private sale investors or team sell-offs.


Can you introduce some information abouts KAVA Deflationary Fee Structure? With the burning mechanism, does it mean KAVA will never reach its max supply?

  • Answer: When loans are repaid, users pay a fee in Kava. This is burned. However, Kava does not have a max supply. It has a starting supply of 100M. It inflates for block rewards 3-20% APR AND it inflates when the system is at risk of under collateralization. At this time, more Kava is minted and used to purchase USDX off the market until it reaches full collateralization again.
  • TLDR: If things go well, and governance is good, Kava deflates and hopefully appreciates in value. If things go wrong, Kava holders get inflated.


In your opinion what are advantage of decentralized finance over centralized?

  • Answer: One of the main advantages is not needing to pay the costs of regulation and compliance. Open financial software that is usable by anyone removes middle men fees and reduces the barrier for new entrants to enter and make new products. Also DeFI has an edge in terms of onboarding - to get a bank account or an exchange account you need to do lots of KYC and give private info. That takes time and is troublesome. With DeFi you just load up your funds and transact. Very fast user flows.


Plan, KAVA how to raise capital? Kava is being supported by more than 100 business entities around the world, including major cryptocurrency investment funds like Ripple and Cosmos, so what did kava do to convince investors to join the project?

  • Answer: We have been doing crypto research and development for years. Ripple and Cosmos were partners before we even started this blockchain with Kava Labs. When we announced Kava the DeFi platform they knew us already to do good work and they liked the idea so they support us.
submitted by Kava_Mod to KavaUSDX [link] [comments]

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submitted by Proofcigarweed to u/Proofcigarweed [link] [comments]

Technical: A Brief History of Payment Channels: from Satoshi to Lightning Network

Who cares about political tweets from some random country's president when payment channels are a much more interesting and are actually capable of carrying value?
So let's have a short history of various payment channel techs!

Generation 0: Satoshi's Broken nSequence Channels

Because Satoshi's Vision included payment channels, except his implementation sucked so hard we had to go fix it and added RBF as a by-product.
Originally, the plan for nSequence was that mempools would replace any transaction spending certain inputs with another transaction spending the same inputs, but only if the nSequence field of the replacement was larger.
Since 0xFFFFFFFF was the highest value that nSequence could get, this would mark a transaction as "final" and not replaceable on the mempool anymore.
In fact, this "nSequence channel" I will describe is the reason why we have this weird rule about nLockTime and nSequence. nLockTime actually only works if nSequence is not 0xFFFFFFFF i.e. final. If nSequence is 0xFFFFFFFF then nLockTime is ignored, because this if the "final" version of the transaction.
So what you'd do would be something like this:
  1. You go to a bar and promise the bartender to pay by the time the bar closes. Because this is the Bitcoin universe, time is measured in blockheight, so the closing time of the bar is indicated as some future blockheight.
  2. For your first drink, you'd make a transaction paying to the bartender for that drink, paying from some coins you have. The transaction has an nLockTime equal to the closing time of the bar, and a starting nSequence of 0. You hand over the transaction and the bartender hands you your drink.
  3. For your succeeding drink, you'd remake the same transaction, adding the payment for that drink to the transaction output that goes to the bartender (so that output keeps getting larger, by the amount of payment), and having an nSequence that is one higher than the previous one.
  4. Eventually you have to stop drinking. It comes down to one of two possibilities:
    • You drink until the bar closes. Since it is now the nLockTime indicated in the transaction, the bartender is able to broadcast the latest transaction and tells the bouncers to kick you out of the bar.
    • You wisely consider the state of your liver. So you re-sign the last transaction with a "final" nSequence of 0xFFFFFFFF i.e. the maximum possible value it can have. This allows the bartender to get his or her funds immediately (nLockTime is ignored if nSequence is 0xFFFFFFFF), so he or she tells the bouncers to let you out of the bar.
Now that of course is a payment channel. Individual payments (purchases of alcohol, so I guess buying coffee is not in scope for payment channels). Closing is done by creating a "final" transaction that is the sum of the individual payments. Sure there's no routing and channels are unidirectional and channels have a maximum lifetime but give Satoshi a break, he was also busy inventing Bitcoin at the time.
Now if you noticed I called this kind of payment channel "broken". This is because the mempool rules are not consensus rules, and cannot be validated (nothing about the mempool can be validated onchain: I sigh every time somebody proposes "let's make block size dependent on mempool size", mempool state cannot be validated by onchain data). Fullnodes can't see all of the transactions you signed, and then validate that the final one with the maximum nSequence is the one that actually is used onchain. So you can do the below:
  1. Become friends with Jihan Wu, because he owns >51% of the mining hashrate (he totally reorged Bitcoin to reverse the Binance hack right?).
  2. Slip Jihan Wu some of the more interesting drinks you're ordering as an incentive to cooperate with you. So say you end up ordering 100 drinks, you split it with Jihan Wu and give him 50 of the drinks.
  3. When the bar closes, Jihan Wu quickly calls his mining rig and tells them to mine the version of your transaction with nSequence 0. You know, that first one where you pay for only one drink.
  4. Because fullnodes cannot validate nSequence, they'll accept even the nSequence=0 version and confirm it, immutably adding you paying for a single alcoholic drink to the blockchain.
  5. The bartender, pissed at being cheated, takes out a shotgun from under the bar and shoots at you and Jihan Wu.
  6. Jihan Wu uses his mystical chi powers (actually the combined exhaust from all of his mining rigs) to slow down the shotgun pellets, making them hit you as softly as petals drifting in the wind.
  7. The bartender mutters some words, clothes ripping apart as he or she (hard to believe it could be a she but hey) turns into a bear, ready to maul you for cheating him or her of the payment for all the 100 drinks you ordered from him or her.
  8. Steely-eyed, you stand in front of the bartender-turned-bear, daring him to touch you. You've watched Revenant, you know Leonardo di Caprio could survive a bear mauling, and if some posh actor can survive that, you know you can too. You make a pose. "Drunken troll logic attack!"
  9. I think I got sidetracked here.
Lessons learned?

Spilman Channels

Incentive-compatible time-limited unidirectional channel; or, Satoshi's Vision, Fixed (if transaction malleability hadn't been a problem, that is).
Now, we know the bartender will turn into a bear and maul you if you try to cheat the payment channel, and now that we've revealed you're good friends with Jihan Wu, the bartender will no longer accept a payment channel scheme that lets one you cooperate with a miner to cheat the bartender.
Fortunately, Jeremy Spilman proposed a better way that would not let you cheat the bartender.
First, you and the bartender perform this ritual:
  1. You get some funds and create a transaction that pays to a 2-of-2 multisig between you and the bartender. You don't broadcast this yet: you just sign it and get its txid.
  2. You create another transaction that spends the above transaction. This transaction (the "backoff") has an nLockTime equal to the closing time of the bar, plus one block. You sign it and give this backoff transaction (but not the above transaction) to the bartender.
  3. The bartender signs the backoff and gives it back to you. It is now valid since it's spending a 2-of-2 of you and the bartender, and both of you have signed the backoff transaction.
  4. Now you broadcast the first transaction onchain. You and the bartender wait for it to be deeply confirmed, then you can start ordering.
The above is probably vaguely familiar to LN users. It's the funding process of payment channels! The first transaction, the one that pays to a 2-of-2 multisig, is the funding transaction that backs the payment channel funds.
So now you start ordering in this way:
  1. For your first drink, you create a transaction spending the funding transaction output and sending the price of the drink to the bartender, with the rest returning to you.
  2. You sign the transaction and pass it to the bartender, who serves your first drink.
  3. For your succeeding drinks, you recreate the same transaction, adding the price of the new drink to the sum that goes to the bartender and reducing the money returned to you. You sign the transaction and give it to the bartender, who serves you your next drink.
  4. At the end:
    • If the bar closing time is reached, the bartender signs the latest transaction, completing the needed 2-of-2 signatures and broadcasting this to the Bitcoin network. Since the backoff transaction is the closing time + 1, it can't get used at closing time.
    • If you decide you want to leave early because your liver is crying, you just tell the bartender to go ahead and close the channel (which the bartender can do at any time by just signing and broadcasting the latest transaction: the bartender won't do that because he or she is hoping you'll stay and drink more).
    • If you ended up just hanging around the bar and never ordering, then at closing time + 1 you broadcast the backoff transaction and get your funds back in full.
Now, even if you pass 50 drinks to Jihan Wu, you can't give him the first transaction (the one which pays for only one drink) and ask him to mine it: it's spending a 2-of-2 and the copy you have only contains your own signature. You need the bartender's signature to make it valid, but he or she sure as hell isn't going to cooperate in something that would lose him or her money, so a signature from the bartender validating old state where he or she gets paid less isn't going to happen.
So, problem solved, right? Right? Okay, let's try it. So you get your funds, put them in a funding tx, get the backoff tx, confirm the funding tx...
Once the funding transaction confirms deeply, the bartender laughs uproariously. He or she summons the bouncers, who surround you menacingly.
"I'm refusing service to you," the bartender says.
"Fine," you say. "I was leaving anyway;" You smirk. "I'll get back my money with the backoff transaction, and posting about your poor service on reddit so you get negative karma, so there!"
"Not so fast," the bartender says. His or her voice chills your bones. It looks like your exploitation of the Satoshi nSequence payment channel is still fresh in his or her mind. "Look at the txid of the funding transaction that got confirmed."
"What about it?" you ask nonchalantly, as you flip open your desktop computer and open a reputable blockchain explorer.
What you see shocks you.
"What the --- the txid is different! You--- you changed my signature?? But how? I put the only copy of my private key in a sealed envelope in a cast-iron box inside a safe buried in the Gobi desert protected by a clan of nomads who have dedicated their lives and their childrens' lives to keeping my private key safe in perpetuity!"
"Didn't you know?" the bartender asks. "The components of the signature are just very large numbers. The sign of one of the signature components can be changed, from positive to negative, or negative to positive, and the signature will remain valid. Anyone can do that, even if they don't know the private key. But because Bitcoin includes the signatures in the transaction when it's generating the txid, this little change also changes the txid." He or she chuckles. "They say they'll fix it by separating the signatures from the transaction body. They're saying that these kinds of signature malleability won't affect transaction ids anymore after they do this, but I bet I can get my good friend Jihan Wu to delay this 'SepSig' plan for a good while yet. Friendly guy, this Jihan Wu, it turns out all I had to do was slip him 51 drinks and he was willing to mine a tx with the signature signs flipped." His or her grin widens. "I'm afraid your backoff transaction won't work anymore, since it spends a txid that is not existent and will never be confirmed. So here's the deal. You pay me 99% of the funds in the funding transaction, in exchange for me signing the transaction that spends with the txid that you see onchain. Refuse, and you lose 100% of the funds and every other HODLer, including me, benefits from the reduction in coin supply. Accept, and you get to keep 1%. I lose nothing if you refuse, so I won't care if you do, but consider the difference of getting zilch vs. getting 1% of your funds." His or her eyes glow. "GENUFLECT RIGHT NOW."
Lesson learned?

CLTV-protected Spilman Channels

Using CLTV for the backoff branch.
This variation is simply Spilman channels, but with the backoff transaction replaced with a backoff branch in the SCRIPT you pay to. It only became possible after OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY (CLTV) was enabled in 2015.
Now as we saw in the Spilman Channels discussion, transaction malleability means that any pre-signed offchain transaction can easily be invalidated by flipping the sign of the signature of the funding transaction while the funding transaction is not yet confirmed.
This can be avoided by simply putting any special requirements into an explicit branch of the Bitcoin SCRIPT. Now, the backoff branch is supposed to create a maximum lifetime for the payment channel, and prior to the introduction of OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY this could only be done by having a pre-signed nLockTime transaction.
With CLTV, however, we can now make the branches explicit in the SCRIPT that the funding transaction pays to.
Instead of paying to a 2-of-2 in order to set up the funding transaction, you pay to a SCRIPT which is basically "2-of-2, OR this singlesig after a specified lock time".
With this, there is no backoff transaction that is pre-signed and which refers to a specific txid. Instead, you can create the backoff transaction later, using whatever txid the funding transaction ends up being confirmed under. Since the funding transaction is immutable once confirmed, it is no longer possible to change the txid afterwards.

Todd Micropayment Networks

The old hub-spoke model (that isn't how LN today actually works).
One of the more direct predecessors of the Lightning Network was the hub-spoke model discussed by Peter Todd. In this model, instead of payers directly having channels to payees, payers and payees connect to a central hub server. This allows any payer to pay any payee, using the same channel for every payee on the hub. Similarly, this allows any payee to receive from any payer, using the same channel.
Remember from the above Spilman example? When you open a channel to the bartender, you have to wait around for the funding tx to confirm. This will take an hour at best. Now consider that you have to make channels for everyone you want to pay to. That's not very scalable.
So the Todd hub-spoke model has a central "clearing house" that transport money from payers to payees. The "Moonbeam" project takes this model. Of course, this reveals to the hub who the payer and payee are, and thus the hub can potentially censor transactions. Generally, though, it was considered that a hub would more efficiently censor by just not maintaining a channel with the payer or payee that it wants to censor (since the money it owned in the channel would just be locked uselessly if the hub won't process payments to/from the censored user).
In any case, the ability of the central hub to monitor payments means that it can surveill the payer and payee, and then sell this private transactional data to third parties. This loss of privacy would be intolerable today.
Peter Todd also proposed that there might be multiple hubs that could transport funds to each other on behalf of their users, providing somewhat better privacy.
Another point of note is that at the time such networks were proposed, only unidirectional (Spilman) channels were available. Thus, while one could be a payer, or payee, you would have to use separate channels for your income versus for your spending. Worse, if you wanted to transfer money from your income channel to your spending channel, you had to close both and reshuffle the money between them, both onchain activities.

Poon-Dryja Lightning Network

Bidirectional two-participant channels.
The Poon-Dryja channel mechanism has two important properties:
Both the original Satoshi and the two Spilman variants are unidirectional: there is a payer and a payee, and if the payee wants to do a refund, or wants to pay for a different service or product the payer is providing, then they can't use the same unidirectional channel.
The Poon-Dryjam mechanism allows channels, however, to be bidirectional instead: you are not a payer or a payee on the channel, you can receive or send at any time as long as both you and the channel counterparty are online.
Further, unlike either of the Spilman variants, there is no time limit for the lifetime of a channel. Instead, you can keep the channel open for as long as you want.
Both properties, together, form a very powerful scaling property that I believe most people have not appreciated. With unidirectional channels, as mentioned before, if you both earn and spend over the same network of payment channels, you would have separate channels for earning and spending. You would then need to perform onchain operations to "reverse" the directions of your channels periodically. Secondly, since Spilman channels have a fixed lifetime, even if you never used either channel, you would have to periodically "refresh" it by closing it and reopening.
With bidirectional, indefinite-lifetime channels, you may instead open some channels when you first begin managing your own money, then close them only after your lawyers have executed your last will and testament on how the money in your channels get divided up to your heirs: that's just two onchain transactions in your entire lifetime. That is the potentially very powerful scaling property that bidirectional, indefinite-lifetime channels allow.
I won't discuss the transaction structure needed for Poon-Dryja bidirectional channels --- it's complicated and you can easily get explanations with cute graphics elsewhere.
There is a weakness of Poon-Dryja that people tend to gloss over (because it was fixed very well by RustyReddit):
Another thing I want to emphasize is that while the Lightning Network paper and many of the earlier presentations developed from the old Peter Todd hub-and-spoke model, the modern Lightning Network takes the logical conclusion of removing a strict separation between "hubs" and "spokes". Any node on the Lightning Network can very well work as a hub for any other node. Thus, while you might operate as "mostly a payer", "mostly a forwarding node", "mostly a payee", you still end up being at least partially a forwarding node ("hub") on the network, at least part of the time. This greatly reduces the problems of privacy inherent in having only a few hub nodes: forwarding nodes cannot get significantly useful data from the payments passing through them, because the distance between the payer and the payee can be so large that it would be likely that the ultimate payer and the ultimate payee could be anyone on the Lightning Network.
Lessons learned?


After LN, there's also the Decker-Wattenhofer Duplex Micropayment Channels (DMC). This post is long enough as-is, LOL. But for now, it uses a novel "decrementing nSequence channel", using the new relative-timelock semantics of nSequence (not the broken one originally by Satoshi). It actually uses multiple such "decrementing nSequence" constructs, terminating in a pair of Spilman channels, one in both directions (thus "duplex"). Maybe I'll discuss it some other time.
The realization that channel constructions could actually hold more channel constructions inside them (the way the Decker-Wattenhofer puts a pair of Spilman channels inside a series of "decrementing nSequence channels") lead to the further thought behind Burchert-Decker-Wattenhofer channel factories. Basically, you could host multiple two-participant channel constructs inside a larger multiparticipant "channel" construct (i.e. host multiple channels inside a factory).
Further, we have the Decker-Russell-Osuntokun or "eltoo" construction. I'd argue that this is "nSequence done right". I'll write more about this later, because this post is long enough.
Lessons learned?
submitted by almkglor to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

The First-generation Terminal — MoonBot

The First-generation Terminal — MoonBot

Our team has developed and is supporting the trading terminal MoonBot which was introduced in October 3, 2017. Currently, the performance of MoonBot surpasses that of most existing trading systems as a result of its advanced functionality and the high security features designed to protect your trading activities.
Secure Connection to the Exchange
The connection from MoonBot to an Exchange is carried out using special keys that the user receives from an exchange such as Binance or Bittrex.
MoonBot connects securely to cryptocurrency trading Exchanges through two special keys which are uniquely and only known to their owner. These are the API key, and the Secret key, both of which the users receives directly from the Exchange.
The MoonBot terminal then receives data and information from the exchange’s API collected at several different access levels, including:
Public information (publicly accessible data related to trading in general):
  • charts;
  • quotes;
  • orderbook;
  • real-time executed orders.
  • Authenticated information (unique to the users and which requires authentication access using the special keys): personal account status (wallet balances);
  • user transactions (such as the details of executed trades).
After receiving the various data information from the exchange, the terminal records these data in a local database for further processing and application.
Security Systems
The MoonBot terminal provides completely private storage of all your personal data!
The MoonBot team has absolutely no access to personal data, you are the only one controlling its security and have complete control over access to your details.
The MoonBot team are not able to withdraw, nor to move, any funds from your personal Exchange account or wallet.
You can therefore safely use the terminal for trading, receiving public information from the Exchange, and should you wish to share with others, the trading data on your account.
You therefore are the only person with control and access to your Exchange wallet, and can be completely assured of the absolute security of your private funds.
Lightning-fast Execution of the Orders on the Exchange and Order Status Update
Depending on the distance of the user from the exchange servers, the delay in order execution should not exceed 1 second. Theoretically, the delay can be reduced to a minimum intangible — 10–20 ms. Below is presented a very short extract(4 seconds in total) of the MoonBot log text file with brief explanations and highlights of the key features.

The MoonBot log text file with brief explanations and highlights of the key features.

Tick Chart. Display of All Orders on the Chart
Thanks to the API connection to the exchange, the terminal receives stream data of all filled orders on the exchange as soon as they were processed by the exchange servers and immediately displays them on the chart.
Tick Chart.
Thus, the visualization of the current state of the market is provided in real time with an accuracy of tens of milliseconds and as detailed as displaying each order on the chart.

Auto Trading on Signals
Fully automatic processing and trading off Telegram signals as well as parced TradingView alerts.
Automatic Detection of Market Conditions and Reaction to its Changes
Thanks to streaming data acquisition, the terminal monitors all available markets simultaneously, and is therefore able to react almost instantaneously as favorable trading possibilities are presented. And due to the minimal delay in the execution of orders, MoonBot responds to abnormal changes almost instantly.

Advanced Orders. Stop Loss, Take Profit, Trailing Stop
OCO orders (one cancels the other) are one of the most sought-after functions from both the Exchanges providing liquidity to the markets, and applications running on top of the exchanges. The modern Trader cannot trade without the basic “smart” functions and addons to traditional exchange orders and considers them to be the minimum necessary set in their armory.
Stop Loss
One of the most important tools for Traders is to be able to place orders whilst practicing safe money management in order to mitigate against losses. One of the most important safety tools is to use a Stop Loss, which is especially important in volatile, low liquidity markets.
With MoonBot, the user can set a Stop Loss threshold (either as a percentage of the order price, or as a number of price points), which their strategy can accept should the price move in the opposite direction to that expected. When this threshold value has been reached, the order will be closed automatically.
Technically, a Stop Loss can be set up in two ways: either as a stop-limit order placed directly on the exchange at the same time as the initial position is opened; or as a function controlled in real-time by the MoonBot terminal itself. Additional types of conditional Stop Loss functions include:
  1. Additional and conditional Stop Losses – these are activated by a timer, and depend on the price reached. Thus Moonbot can raise the Stop Loss to a break-even point, or can be set to move upward to follow coin growth and to achieve higher profitability.
  2. BV/SV Ratio Stop Loss — this is a measure of buying/selling pressure and depends on the ratio of the volume of coin purchases compared against sales over a given time range. For example, if the number of sales exceeds the number of purchases, then this Stop Loss would be activated
  3. V-STOP — this is a stop which depends on the volume in the orderbook, where a price and volume level is set, which if broken will activate the Stop Loss.
  4. Trailing Stop — Trailing Stop is a General Stop Loss Management Tool. This very important feature allows the Trader to maximize profit in an automatic mode by following upward price movements, until the price reverses by a preset amount. At that stage the Stop Loss is activated.
    Take Profit
The Trader can fix the profit gained as the value of an asset increases in several ways:
  • By closing the position after a predefined profit percentage has been reached.
  • By remaining in the position, and setting the Stop Loss level to break-even, or to higher profit levels.

Algorithmic Trading
At the moment, MoonBot has 13 types of strategies in-built (manual) using specific and well-proven algorithms (algorithmic trading or algo-trading).
Together these have more than 200 adjustable parameters that can be adjusted to optimize their profitability across the wide range of trending and ranging markets that occur.
Trusted Management
MoonBot includes a successful and well-tested Trusted Management feature, in other words — Copy Trading:
  • All trade actions from the Master Terminal are repeated on the Follower’s Terminal (slave terminal).
  • The Follower’s deposit remains securely in their own personal exchange account.
  • The Trusted Management feature does not have direct access to money, or to direct trading on someone else’s account, but manages only its own Exchange orders, simultaneously broadcasting encrypted messages to Followers terminals containing all Master actions.
Trust Management is successfully implemented and used by members of our community. The statistics of those TM Traders who share their results can be reviewed on the website — on the RatingTM tab.
During the two years of development of the MoonBot terminal, more than 30,000 copies have been registered and used by our Community of Traders.
Every day several thousand people trade cryptocurrencies using the MoonBot terminal, making daily approximately one hundred thousand manual and automatic transactions only on the leading crypto-currency exchange — Binance.
The existing community of traders is actively developing. The MoonBot project has its own active pages on popular social networks, in dedicated Telegram channels divided by topics, and also its own Trader’s forum available to subscribers.
Topics on the BitcoinTalk Forum
  • — the official site of the MoonBot.
  • — MoonBot forum.
  • — trade statistics of the community members, TOP-50.
    Telegram Groups
  • — the main RU-chat for communication.
  • — main ENG chat for communication and support.
  • — RU technical support chat.
  • — general RU chat.
    Telegram Channel — the latest news and updates.
Social Network
The current Support team is actively assisting users and resolving their issues through dedicated Telegram channels.
submitted by MoonTrader_io to Moontrader_official [link] [comments]

Why the Verge-Pornhub partnership didn't move the market, and why usability continues to stall adoption

I'll let somebody else point out that very few people pay for porn to begin with. Very optimistically let's say its 1:10 PH users. Within that group, there's going to be small pool that own bitcoin, and much much fewer people have the technical ability to understand how to use exchanges and wallets.
A raw crypto checkout option is not a product. One that is basically a credit card funnel through ProbilleCoinpayments is even less of a crypto checkout option (which is what they did). This is a glorified extra-long credit card checkout option in disguise, where you still have to create a username and tie it to an email address. No email, no checkout. Yeah.
Think about it. Let's say I'm your average college hornball and I want to get a PH subscription. Exit the Matrix and walk through the steps of a normal human being just trying to use this new bold Internet:
  1. Spend 3 days feverishly researching how to use a wallet
  2. Sign up for Coinbase where I likely can't use a credit card
  3. Pay my bank a crazy fee to transfer money, if I even can
  4. Wait literally days later to jerk off in the future
  5. Sign up for a Binance account or some other exchange
  6. Setup 2FA after completing an intro course in computer science
  7. Trade my coins to Verge
  8. Move Verge to Pornhub through their cryptic checkout option . (Probiller which then sends you to CoinPayments)
  9. No redirect into your account. Apparently wait for an email to confirm the transaction (seriously?)
Imagine trying to do all that from a smartphone. No way.
Yeah, not going to happen.
Consider this check-out flow instead:
1) Let's buy porn! Do you already own Verge (y/n)
Y) Here's our wallet address and a QR code, on standby to let you in (confirms it and you're in, here's your randomly generated usepass pair, to recover it here's a 12 word recovery phrase -- zero bullshit!)
N) First you'll need a wallet, let's install one. Mobile or Desktop? And the wallet uses an API to a fiat processor, instead of the madness they implemented.
It's not that hard, people.
I said it before and I said it again: the user experience is the product. Verge-Pornhub have no product. What they built is a tiny pinhole to crawl through, and that means nothing for adoption.
Adoption starts when using crypto requires no explanation.
Had Verge focused on usability instead of this incredibly expensive stunt there would be more volume and more integrations without having to throw crowdfunded money at a site to add them. It's not going last. There is no substitute or shortcut towards building a good user experience. You have to sit down with real people.
Instead, we have this awkward moment where early Verge investors feel misled, if not embarrassed, to forcefully have their portfolios thrown into the porn business.
submitted by ChampramBenjaporn to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

Dxchain Alkademy - All about Mainnet?

Dxchain Alkademy - All about Mainnet?

Dxchain Mainnet

Recently, Dxchain team announced the launch of Dxchain project's mainnet alpha. You can find the article containing the release here.

In this article, the team summarized briefly on what mainnet entails as quoted below:

It is well known that mainnet is the fundamental of a blockchain project, cryptocurrency is not a real blockchain technology until the Mainnet launch. Any concepts, ideas or theories are not realizable. DxChain has been committed to building a secure and efficient decentralized big data storage and computing network from the beginning. The construction, development and performance of DxChain network are what DxChain engineers caring about. The release of DxChain Mainnet Alpha represents that DxChain has basically completed the construction of the public chain framework, in which smart contracts, storage contracts, DPoS consensus algorithms, mining and other functions have been developed; also represents DxChain's transformation from cryptocurrency to a real public chain.

The explanation is concise enough for an average crypto user to understand what mainnet is. In this article, I will try to expand a bit farther on the idea of mainnet and why it is necessary for a project like DxchainNetwork to have a mainnet.

In the forum discussion I started here, I gathered knowledge of how mainnet works which gave me the clear insight of what I needed to know. Firstly, let us take a deeper look of what a mainnet is.

What Is A Mainnet?

Before now, On July 8, Dxchain launched her testnet and officially announced it here. It evidenced that the Dxchain Team had the prototype of the project up for running. That brings me to contrasting between Mainnet and Testnet. A Mainnet stands for the "Main Network" is the “real” cryptocurrency network where testnet represents a dummy alternatively network for the purposes of testing only. The cryptocurrency coins/token generated on testnet mostly aren't real since they do not have any monetary value as compared to that of mainnet with monetary value.

The functionality of transferring a digital currency between the parties involved is rendered on the mainnet. It is on the mainnet that the decentralized applications are developed and deployed.

According to Binance Academy ,Mainnet is the term used to describe when a blockchain protocol is fully developed and deployed, meaning that cryptocurrency transactions are being broadcasted, verified, and recorded on a distributed ledger technology (blockchain).
In cryptocurrencies, mainnets are the end products in blockchain projects that make it possible for transactions to be carried out. It also undergoes changes from time to time when there is need for updates or review. Before an investors makes his decision to invest in an Initial Coin Offering (ICO), it appears very crucial to be sure the blockchain project has a mainnet. Both mainnet or a testnet indicate the seriousness of a project as they affect the price of a cryptocurrency in one way or another.

Does Mainnet Affect Price of coin?

On Dxchain's telegram communuty, I have witnessed several users asking questions like "Admin, Why the pump?, "Admin, price is high. Why! and so on. It is obvious there are so many who seem not having the right information before investing in a coin resulting in them either losing or missing out of good projects. This accounts for why this article is necessary. Continuous upgrades and revision of the mainnet function is a must if a cryptocurrency project is to enjoy wide success in terms of rising price which I believe the Dxchain Team have in their routine plan board. For instance, Bitcoin is one project that has enjoyed immense success in cryptocurrency environment, in part because of Mainnet upgrades.

Recently, the top cryptocurrency by market capitalization launched Lightning Network -a mainnet feature that added a second layer on the blockchain. The Off-chain solution was a significant update intended to make BTC more scalable thus allowing the blockchain to handle more transactions per second.`


In conclusion, a mainnet launch is a planned and or defining time for a blockchain project to open to public and commence mass adaptation. When a blockchain project team is ready to roll out their official end product, they will carry out a “mainnet launch”, putting the product into actual production and operations.

Reference 1
Reference 2
submitted by Bobelr to DxChainNetwork [link] [comments]

AMA Wrap-up & Summary

A very big thank you to everyone who participated in FinNexus’s first ever AMA session in the Wanchain Telegram! We were very pleased with the level of enthusiasm from AMA participants! We’re sorry to say that we weren’t able to answer every single question as we received close to 80 questions, and many of them were similar. However, we did our best to identify all the unique questions and answer them all as fully as possible. We have also selected the top ten 🏆🏆🏆winning questions🏆🏆🏆 of the AMA who’s askers will be receiving $20.00 worth of FNC each at the Wanchain address they submitted after the token generation event scheduled in January.
(Feel free to ask any other questions in response to this post!)


1.🏆 What’s special about Finnexus vs. others in the space? @oluap5773
Our closest competitors are traditional financial institutions which offer low risk, non blockchain based stable return and fixed return products. Our other competitors would be platforms such as Binance and Compound which offer centralized or decentralized stable return products based on crypto lending businesses.
FinNexus has a unique focus on assets with real value built on blockchain infrastructure, which is rare in our other DeFi projects. Unlike Binance and Compound whose stable return products are based on crypto lending businesses, the assets we issue include those based on both real world and crypto businesses, which gives users access to reliable assets which are not correlated with the performance of crypto markets. And unlike traditional institutions, all our products are built on blockchain, which enables them to make use of all the blockchain’s advantages.
2. 🏆 What do you think of the future of DeFi in this space? @salmanmbstu96
Our expectation of the future DeFi is mainly on the application level rather than a technical one.
  1. Borrowing and Lending cannot be everything about DeFi. The growth of the DeFi should be largely diversified to other assets and business models.
  2. The risks in the DeFi world is similar, in other words, most of the DeFi models are facing the same systematic risks, which are with high risk and high expected return characteristics. In cases when the bitcoin collapses, every businesses and scenarios will be affected. This is not healthy.
  3. The DeFi applications are not so user-friendly. One has to take some time to learn how to deal with one decentralized product.
A leading project in the future should have the ability to solve the problems above. Blockchain is a great technology, while the combination with finance cannot avoid the basic logic and be isolated from the successful scenarios and models we built. Different models here mean different application scenarios in the financial world, like the equity rights, debenture rights, derivatives or other beneficiary rights.
The centralized or decentralized cannot be questions like yes or no. During the process of development, there may be something in between. On one hand it is built in a decentralized way and smart contracts are triggered automatically; while on the other hand, it is adapting the realistic that some parts of transactions or measurements must be under centralized regulations. We would like to call it Open Finance, as it is open to both the crypto assets on the blockchain, and the assets off the chain while restructuring their parts in a decentralized way.
In the future, we believe that there will be leading projects, that can bridge the blockchain technology and real world assets, diversify the systematic risks while attracting more users, and be user friendly that the nonprofessional may easily operate.
3. 🏆 Give me reason’s why should I invest in #FinNexus? @cryptococuk01
I hope you read the write paper of FinNexus and got understandings on what FinNexus is about to do. FNC will be the sole token in the FinNexus ecosystem. It is a kind of hybrid token, like a utility token but also benefiting from FinNexus development.
FinNexus will work as the financial product supermarket, Broker, Investment Banker or something alike. It will gain revenue directly from its operations.
Holders of FNC is eligible to the following rights or benefits (will be explained in details on the FinNexus official websites):
1)Rights of higher rate of returns on tokenized products; 2)Rights to invest in tokenized products with lower cost; 3)Benefits on the discount on the transaction commissions; 4)Derivative rights, like early settlement, resale or interest swaps; 5)Rights to interact with WAN; 6)Benefits on the FinNexus’ development; the revenue of FinNexus is from: Underwriting; Investment banking; Market making; Transaction commissions; Investment in tokenized products.
4. 🏆 How can FinNexus goal be explained in layman’s terms? @iamthethirdkind
You can actually get a clue from the project’s name ‘FinNexus’. The name is quite straightforward. FinNexus is the combination of the words ‘Finance’ and ‘Nexus’. It means financial connections. I will explain that in 3 aspects:
  1. To asset owners
Finance here includes the ‘traditional’ and the ‘decentralized’ and traditional finance is only traditional compared to DeFi. Here FinNexus is aiming at providing a solution, which we call it a protocol, where one can link the traditional financial world with the blockchain technology in an efficient, transparent and feasible way. For example, one with assets that have good expected cash flows will find a way to easily tokenize the assets on FinNexus.
  1. To users FinNexus will act as a financial product supermarket. Right now, the DeFi world has a problem that almost all of the crypto assets or financial products bear the same systematic risks, which means when the Bitcoin price collapses, every kind will join the plummet and even the financial models will cease to be valid. One of the reasons is that all assets are purely crypto-born. Moreover, the crypto interface is not so easy for a nonprofessional to operate. FinNexus’ goal is to provide diversification and convenience with assets of real value. Users will be able to invest in assets with various risks and returns here, and can easily choose to their preferences like in a supermarket.
  2. FinNexus Itself
FinNexus is concentrating in the application level, with the help of the two initiators. It will not operate or manage assets directly and will act as a channel or a hub, where supplies and needs are paired, while in later stages, it will strive to build the protocols or standards for all of these tokenizations and transactions.
5. 🏆 What are tokenized digital assets in FinNexus? How is it different from current digital assets? @hg144
The FinNexus team have done researches on the tokenization of real world assets. Right now, only a few groups like the credit assets, supply chain finance or other sub-dividable beneficial rights seem most feasible. These tokenized products may bear characteristics like equities, debentures, derivatives or other beneficiary rights.
The noticeable differences lie in the nature of the products. The returns are from the cashflow of the real world assets, rather than mining, staking, speculating, etc. FinNexus combines the decentralized and centralized means. The tokens have advantages on chain, while the product design and disclosure draw lessons from traditional finance.
Apart from that, there will also be products totally on chain, triggered by smart contracts, like crypto futures, options, and ETFs, with user-friendly interfaces.
6. 🏆 What are the advantages and disadvantages of FinNexus when developing in a large market like China? Do you have plans to develop other regions? @hiampluto
(1) The blockchain industrial environment and public opinion guidance has changed since China’s President Xi Jinping recent announcement. The word blockchain has been mentioned in social media time and time again, and almost everyone is trying to find out what it is. President made it clear that the country would encourage enterprises applying the technology into real world scenarios.
(2) China has the largest population and made great technological progress over the last decade. Blockchain projects, communities, exchanges, token funds, medias, and other participants have established a complete and dynamic ecosystem. FinNexus is easy to access to these resources.
(3) Financial market in China has been making great progress, which provides FinNexus with adequate talents, financial products and potential users.
(4) The two initiators Wanchain and SuperAtom (incubated by Cheetah Mobile) are all based in China. They both give FinNexus big financial, human-power and community support, with minimum communication cost in the same city.
(1) Activities like ICOs or other forms of public fund-raising are still restricted;
(2) The government’s attitude towards the security-like tokens and tokenization is still not clear;
(3) Language and time zone discrepancy may cause difficulties.
FinNexus is aiming to build a global open finance protocol. Blockchain should be boundless, and so will be our users and assets. Our first product’s basic asset is in SE Asia. We are now building teams, grouping communities, and recruiting regional ambassadors. Also, we are making continuous and effective interactions with the global communities of Wanchain and Bitrue.
7. 🏆 FinNexus’s team consists of experienced and brilliant individuals. What made them to unite together and work in unison for the fulfilment of it and how does it act as an advantage compared to other projects in terms of brainstorming and guidance? @cryptollll
Though key members of FinNexus team seem to have different educational backgrounds or working experiences, we come together with the same beliefs and goals. The same purpose has united us together and after grinding-in over one and a half years, we are working together energetically and harmoniously, which provides a foundation for the success of FinNexus. It is not the first time we work together and we knew each other with for long time. The details of resumes are on the website.
8. 🏆 Many blockchain projects and companies focus on making very complex systems, say they will revolutionize the society, and help the unbanked. Since you work directly in the area, how realistic do you think such statements are? @lucbazanse
The team has been working together for more than a year already. FinNexus is a project at the layer 3 level in the blockchain system, targeting at the application usage. The team believes that no matter how innovative or revolutionary a new technology is, if it fails to be conveniently applied in everyday use or have efficient or cost-saving solutions to users, we cannot call it a successful technology.
Therefore, we will build our application on top of the successful public chains and concentrate in providing financially practical and risk diversified products and user friendly applications. We doubt that the unbanked can be helped by a complex system. Unbanked group of people usually exist in the less developed regions that lack basic infrastructure. They may not well educated or lack the basic understanding of the technology or even ideas of modern financial or banking system.
Therefore, the application is most important. A successful project should provide them with friendly interfaces and convenient accesses, aiming directly to their basic needs, no matter how complex or innovative the technology is. That’s what FinNexus is trying to do, to provide what is needed the most in a simple and understandable way.
9. 🏆 Which way you will offer token sale?
We create a new way of the token sales together with launching our products. FinNexus’ will issue its CFNC (convertible FNC), which gives holders the right to convert into ABT in the conversion period. The holders of ABT are eligible to the benefit with an annualized rate of return at over 10%. ABT is called the Asset Backed Token in general, in specific, the return of the token is backed by the consumer loan assets in Indonesia, with the originator SuperAtom, which is initiated by the NYSE listed company Cheetah Mobile, as the basic asset. It has a traditional hierarchical design and the ABT is the token in the senior tranche. The details will be disclosed in the Offering Circular on the FinNexus website later.
We strongly recommend the interested blockchainers to check the details on
10. 🏆 Can you tell more about road-map for future developments? @toanphamhd
In phase one, before the end of 2019 or early in 2020, FinNexus is introducing ICTO, combining the fund raising process with its products. Instruments with the essentials of ABT are likely to be one of the major products offered to users, with different systematic risks from the crypto assets. Before the first quarter of 2020, other products like the borrowing and lending, hedging, ETF and staking are likely to be issued, as well as the other schemes of the ABT products. FinNexus will also cooperate with at least three of the token exchanges, crypto wallets or other channels as the sale portals.
In phase two, before the end of 2020, FinNexus will search for the qualified assets globally and combine the blockchain technology with the real world application scenarios in vaster occasions. And FinNexus work with other mainnet projects to launch its new products and interactions with the chain tokens. Moreover, FinNexus will facilitate the trade of the ABT and other similar products on the OTC market. The experience of the traditional financial market shows that the OTC transactions of these products have even higher volume than the bidding mode in the exchanges.
In the third phase, in three years, FinNexus’ goal is to build an open finance protocol. This protocol is established on Layer 3, targeted on the application level. It will provide the basic standard for the tokenization and transaction for all types of assets, both in traditional finance and in the crypto world. All assets that provide future returns will be programmable with blockchain in the future and FinNexus is defining a protocol that provides the standards and convenience in realization. Different assets may apply to various requirements in details, but the common language lying in is what FinNexus is chasing for.
While in the coming days, we would expect 1) the release of the detailed conversion and subscription rules on the website; 2) the release of the ABT offering circular to give a detailed explanation on the risks and returns; 3) setting the timetable for offering and listing of FNC.


11. What is the current development progress of the project, and when is the main online release? @btc4life76
The first product will be released together with ICTO process, details of which you may check on the FinNexus website. Right now, the product is under the final stage of development and the team are working on the necessary information disclosure materials and the design of tokens on Wanchain. The planned release time will be before the end of this year or early next year.
12. “What are the recent change in high-level strategy in product design and development? How will it help the #FinNexus to move further with the safest & fastest Blockchain technology?” @ahmetumit08
FinNexus is a project built on layer 3 and concentrates on technological application. ‘We are the portal to the users and we need to make it simple, convenient, understandable and transparent’.
The advantage does not lie in the sophistication of the underlying technology, but in the application level. To establish an Open Finance Protocol, FinNexus has to move earlier and faster than the others, and at present, it is the first in the industry to put forward this concept.
In product development, we will make each code be used in real use case and keep improving in practice. In the beginning, we will built a layer 3 for assets tokenization and distribution, fee and interests distribution, buying and withdrawing. Users (business users) do not need to connect public chains, but use our SDK or API to interact with different chains. Recently we are focusing on protocols with smart contracts that asset tokenization could be easily deployed by FNX layer 3. And then we will focus on the protocol of decentralized token distribution. That means anyone who wants to sell assets tokens in FinNexus only need to download our SDK or connect our API.
13. How many different types of assets can be expected in the first quarter of 2020 . What will be the jurisdiction of assets and how will FinNexus avoid people from holding assets from restricted jurisdictions? @anon
As a project incubated by SuperAtom, the UangMe assets will work as an initiator, and it has the potential of the amount of 100M USD. In the meantime, similar assets in Malaysia are under discussion. In addition, there will be other types of products the users may expect in the first quarter of 2020, like crypto borrowing and lending products, easy-operating crypto-currency derivatives, ETF products, staking related products, etc., and they are all under development right now.
We have a legal team that help us deal with the jurisdiction issues. We will monitor the changing legal environment around the main countries and regions. KYC procedures are necessary for avoiding investors from holding assets from restricted jurisdictions.
14. How FinNexus and Wanchain both can get benefitted using each others protocol? @salmanmbstu96
FinNexus is the layer 3 which can make users, especially business users, to use Wanchain easily in financial aspects. And FinNexus focuses on different assets, that could grant Wanchain with more applications to run. In most of financial scenarios, multi-coin will be used, so we can use the cross-chain protocol of Wanchain. If Wanchain protocol is like a highway road, FinNexus protocol is working as an assembly line.
15. What do you think about Defi Landscape right now? @paraphan1992
Now, many DeFi projects are limited to the products and applications with the pure crypto assets. They can be highly decentralized and automated, but is it enough?
1) Borrowing and Lending is the first natural DeFi application scenario and contributes to over 90% of the application scenarios. It cannot be everything about DeFi. The growth of the DeFi should be largely diversified to other assets and business models.
2) The risks in the DeFi world is similar, in other words, most of the DeFi models are facing the same systematic risks, which are with high risk and high expected return characteristics. In cases when the bitcoin collapses, every businesses and scenarios will be affected. This is not healthy. Tokens transactions with high risks and the relating credit activities cannot be the whole world of DeFi. FinNexus is trying to introduce financial products with different types and levels of risks and expected returns, to enrich the products desperately needed in the industry.
3) The DeFi applications are not so user-friendly. One has to take some time to learn how to deal with one decentralized product. FinNexus aims at providing something that is transparent with the information needed for the investors to make judgment while easy to handle.
Right now, Maker is trying to move to Multi-Collateral Dai (MCD), a big step to make the DeFi model richer and healthier. Also they introduce Dai Savings Rate (DSR), which may have the potential to be regarded as one of the standard rates. In the future, we may witness wider real world assets and application scenarios in DeFi and that is the path that DeFi is bound to follow.
16. Can FinNexus support smart contracts? @btc4life76
The answer is yes, smart contracts will play important roles in the FinNexus products. The first phase of products will be built on Wanchain and according to the ICTO rules, the ABT conversion and the future payment of principal and interest of ABT will all be supported by smart contracts. Again, for details of ICTO please check our website. In later phases ,we will develop other products based on ETH or other chains according to the users’ requirements and asset characteristics; and smart contracts will be richer and more diversified.
17. Why do we need DEFI? What is the new thing that DeFi bring to us? Was your project born for that? @oluap5773
A: The decentralized blockchain technology needs application scenarios, and the finance needs the innovative technology to solve its own problems, thus here comes the merge of the two.
Bitcoin brings the blockchain technology into our sight and until now, it has 70% of the total value of crypto assets. Bitcoin is born to facilitate the financial transactions and most of the project henceforth cannot be isolated from the financial fields. There is an inevitable bond since the birth of the technology, and finance is always the natural experimental field of blockchain.
The problem of information asymmetry is always puzzling investors and regulators. Most of the solution came from a centralized way from the authorities before, while the result was much diversified among regions. With the emergence of blockchain, it provides an alternative solution to this long-lasting issue. It is trustworthy, non-modifiable and self-proved. Moreover, it is bondless and anti-authorized, which can largely reduce the cost of international transactions while enhancing the efficiency. The technology is self-organized, decentralized and automated. DeFi has the potential to change the governance structure and investment behavior in the financial world.
Tens of years ago, the internet has brought finance efficiency and popularization. Today blockchain is about to change the financial system again. It introduces the participants into a new territory that is bondless, decentralized, trustworthy, and equal. It will largely decrease the cost of centralized supervision, the risk of information asymmetry and the barrier among economic entities. Many business formats will change concerning the technology, including the economic entities, governance authorities, market intermediaries, exchanges and the transaction behavior of investors. For example, in the future, it is expected that the basic bookkeeping of a business entity will be on blockchain, and all of the operational activities like procurement, production, sales, inventories, invoices, taxations, employments, etc., will be dealt with and recorded in a decentralized way. Therefore, the auditors’ jobs are shifting from the bookkeeping test of accuracy to the verification of the validity of the chain.
Of course, FinNexus is born to be part of the big change, and we strive to be one of the driving forces of the financial decentralization progress. The goal of FinNexus is to build an Open Finance Protocol. The protocol is like a channel or a standard, to allow all kinds of assets, whether decentralized or centralized, whether with characteristics of equity, debenture, derivative or other hybrid, to find its path towards tokenization with the blockchain technology. By maintaining the basic business logic and learning from the traditional financial model, FinNexus will combine with the advantages of the blockchain technology, to make investors truly benefit from decentralization.
18. Which target users does FinNexus aim to serve? Will its technology be easy for participants to use but still ensure open, transparent and equal way? @paraphan1992
FinNexus aims to serve those who know blockchain and have invested in crypto assets or DeFi products, those who know real world investment but little about blockchain, and those who know little about crypto assets or financial investment but interested in the blockchain technology and curious on the virtual assets.
The meaning of ‘Nexus’ has many parts, and one is to make connections with different market participants. FinNexus will work through protocols and try to act as a channel. In future stages, it will make connections with the OTC markets providing fiat and crypto currency exchanges. Through these protocols, non-crypto users will be able to invest in the FinNexus products.
As FinNexus is built on Layer 3, the protocol will be built combining the decentralized and centralized solution. User-friendliness is a must. By means of easy interfaces, full information disclosure and integrated protocols, users with various degree of knowledge and different risk tolerance are able to get their suitable investment, easily and transparently.
whether decentralization or centralization, are means not targets.
Openness, transparency and equality are necessary to lower credit risks in financial activities. The subscription, transaction, interaction and distribution of financial products will be on chain in a decentralized way, implemented by smart contracts; while the information disclosure, real assets collateral and basic assets operation will be off chain in a centralized way. FinNexus protocols will work to achieve such goals.
submitted by noahniuwa to finnexus [link] [comments]

Beginner's Guide to Trading Crypto. Part 9

Beginner's Guide to Trading Crypto. Part 9

Cryptocurrency Coin Vs Token: The Hierophants Of The Crypto Market

The cryptocurrencies market is rapidly changing as new terms are emerging along with their technological backing. But no matter how advanced blockchain technologies may become, the fundamental pillars of the market are the token and the coin. The irony is that many market participants do not yet know the difference between the two terms, or may even consider knowing those differences redundant. That is a pity, since the crypto coin vs token dilemma has been around for years and can never have too much explanation.

What Is A Token?

The token is the most basic form of asset available on the crypto market. Tokens are digital assets, which are issued by a project on the blockchain. Their main purpose is serving as means of payment for goods and services within the framework of the project ecosystem. They also grant their holders the right of participation in the network through joining groups or even voting much like a share on the financial market.
There are two types of tokens, the utility and security tokens. Utility tokens are exactly what their name implies, they are used as means for achieving a goal, much like a token in the subway, which, once entered into the machine, will give the holder the right to take a ride. On the other hand, security tokens are representative of a project’s share and give their holders the right to expect profit in the future much like a security on the financial market.
The most comment abbreviation on the market is ERC-20 and many people would ask “What are ERC-20 tokens?” There are two main types of standards for tokens, the ERC-20 and the ERC-721. ERC-20, or Ethereum Request For Comment (20 stands for the number assigned to the standard by the programmers) is the most popular programming standard used for the operation of smart contracts on the Ethereum blockchain. ERC-721 is much less frequently encountered, but it is a free and open standard as well. It is used for building non-fungible tokens on the Ethereum blockchain. Unlike ERC-20 tokens, which are all the same in their standard, each ERC-721 token is unique by virtue of its nature.
There are many other standards on the market with their own unique characteristics, for example ERC-223, which is a variation of ERC-20 with added functionality, the ERC-777, which is an improved version of ERC-20. There are also the ERC-1155, ERC-1337 and others.

What Is A Coin?

Coins are the firstborn of the crypto market with the greatest value. Coins are the original digital money built on the basis of cryptographic technologies with blockchain at their core. Just like money, coins were designed to hold value and bear it over time. The blockchain serves as the substitute for banks and provides transparency and fraud-free operation for coins. Coins have many of the main characteristics of money, since they are fungible, divisible into smaller portions, acceptable as an equivalent of money at outlets for goods and services, portable like cash or bank cards, durable thanks to their electronic nature, and have a limited supply, or emission. Bitcoin, Ripple, Litecoin, Monero and many others are coins.
Two of the main characteristics of coins that set them apart from all other assets are:
  1. Coins can be mined from a limited emission pool, and they can be sent or received like ordinary money;
  2. Coins are meant to act only as money and are not used in any particular project as an asset for receiving goods or services provided by that project.

The Difference Between Coins And Tokens

If we were to sum up the crypto token vs coin dilemma, then we have to look at the essence of the coins and tokens together.
Coins are money that does not act within the framework of any project as a means of gaining goods or services, they act as a store of value and either appreciate or depreciate over time, and coins can be mined from a limited issuance pool.
Tokens cannot be mined, they act as either utility assets granting access to goods and services within the framework of a specific project, or as a security and share equivalent of a project. They are non-fungible and can be bought at exchanges from the issuing projects. Most tokens are pre-mined and cannot be mined beyond the limited issuance.

Coin Vs Token: Where To Buy?

Coins and tokens can be bought or sold on exchanges. The most popular means of buying tokens and coins is through the use of US Dollars or other Coins. Tokens cannot be exchanged for other tokens in essence, since exchanges operate with coins or fiat currencies, like the US Dollar. To buy the tokens of a project, traders must either use fiat currencies or buy coins and then buy the tokens. The same applies for coins, which can only be bought for other coins or fiat currencies.
There are dozens of exchanges on the market, but one of the most convenient is Binance. We invite everyone to visit Binance and try it out to evaluate its convenience and broad range of functions.

Forming Up

The ICO phenomenon swept across the market in 2017-2018, but few actually thought that the ICO, or Initial Coin Offering is not the same as an ITO, or Initial Token Offering. Most projects that went under the title of an ICO did not offer coins, but tokens. Therefore, before launching an asset, a project must first decide what its asset is – a coin or a token.
If we consider the ICO token vs coin dilemma in general, it is important to understand that only coins bear value like money in general, while tokens are confined to a certain project and only grant access to its goods or services.

Check us out at

Originally posted on our blog.
submitted by MoonTrader_io to Moontrader_official [link] [comments]

Slack log for Ark token's value proposition discussion 16-07-18

Please find below a log of the discussion we had in slack regarding the ark token's value proposition. Some of the community members who happen to be long term holders of ark feel that the ark token's value proposition isn't clearly communicated by the team so they asked about it. I'm posting the entire discussion it here to make a permanent record since slack wipes messages after a while.
arigard [7:21 PM]
Hey team, so I'm curious. Is there any update on a new white paper at all that was being mentioned? I've been holding Ark since it hit Bittrex and I personally don't really have a clear idea about how the token is going to work in the overall picture, or what really the direction is for the project once v2 is out. It feels like things have gone a bit flat recently, are there any updates on direction and what the plan is once V2 is live? Is there any idea about when it might go live? Or how the Ark token will fit into the economy (will it be a gas?). I see a lot of other projects i'm invested in coming up with very clear roadmaps/dates and direction about what they want to be and I still personally feel Ark's message is a little confused and hard to read especially for people who are not coders/developers.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:22 PM]
the roadmap is on the site, has nice presentations and other goodies
roks0n (deadlock) [7:23 PM]
@Matthew_DC mentioned a couple of days ago that he’s preparing several blog posts which should explain most of these @arigard
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:23 PM]
the Blog also goes into lots of v2 details
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:24 PM]
Hi everyone.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:24 PM]
Ark is Ark, not like Eth with gas, hence no gas.
Hey @Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) welcome back
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:24 PM]
Hey rob, hi Rok :slightly_smiling_face:
roks0n (deadlock) [7:25 PM]
Rob, I think he means how everything will be connected with ArkVM etc.
similar conversation as the one few days ago (edited)
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:25 PM]
It's been a while, but I was head on in the project, sorry for not showing more often.
arigard [7:25 PM]
Yeah my main question is really I still don't know what will give the actual Ark token value .
goldenpepe [7:25 PM]
we dont know how the arkvm will work
All we can do is wait
Doubled1c3 ( [7:26 PM]
uploaded and commented on this image: bucket.jpg
@Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe)
goldenpepe [7:26 PM]
We can make assumptions but that's all they'll be
roks0n (deadlock) [7:26 PM]
@arigard this was the discussion:
roks0n (deadlock)
definitely, I’m not blaming anyone :slightly_smiling_face: Was just curious if there were any developments in terms of the updated whitepaper because I was reading one of the threads on reddit from 6 months ago where it was mentioned you’re looking to hire someone write it up.
Posted in #generalJul 12th
arigard [7:26 PM]
And I kind of feel this is such a big elephant in the room for people in the long run.
roks0n (deadlock) [7:26 PM]
click on the link and read from that post on (edited)
arigard [7:26 PM]
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:27 PM]
I saw that there has been some drawbacks with the V2 ?
(Not sure if it's exact, I only came a few times and seemed to understand it was so)
goldenpepe [7:28 PM]
There are just some incompatibilities between v1 and v2 in devnet
which is why devnet is currently down
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:28 PM]
ArkVM may be unnecessary as more modern approaches to handling contracts are available, one of the main issue is having them be distributed just like the tokens.
goldenpepe [7:28 PM]
There's a community run v2-only devnet though #devnet_unofficial
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:28 PM]
it's more like drawback with v1
arigard [7:30 PM]
I mean I've seen a lot of stuff in that discussion discussed over the past year and there still seems to be no concrete answers coming out and that is a bit of worry to me personally. It makes it look like the team doesn't even know. I think most that know of Ark understand it wants to create an easy way to deploy blockchains and work as a platform and have some inoperability options. But the fundamentals of how that work right now seems to be up in the air. In other projects I know what gives those tokens value, but in Ark I don't, so it's hard for me as an investor to really sell to someone else the benefits of the token when there is a big question mark still on it.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:33 PM]
do you know that Ark Deployer has been available for quite some time?
arigard [7:34 PM]
Yes, that doesn't really answer any questions though.
mak [7:34 PM]
Ark deployer helps the main chain's business case somehow?
arigard [7:35 PM]
What gives Ark token actual value? Like what is the reason people need to buy and hold the Ark token? That is my question.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:36 PM]
@mak what you're saying is kinda like answering you can use a hammer when asked what a nail do.
arigard [7:36 PM]
You don't need to buy the Ark token to deploy a chain. You can just do it.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:36 PM]
I mean, the Ark Deployer doesn't answer what's the Ark.
mak [7:36 PM]
@Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) my point was directed towards rob's comment. I think you misunderstood it.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:37 PM]
@mak My bad then. I apologize.
Blockhunter [7:38 PM]
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:38 PM]
" I think most that know of Ark understand it wants to create an easy way to deploy blockchains and work as a platform and have some inoperability options. But the fundamentals of how that work right now seems to be up in the air."
This is why I wrote that.. there is no mystery of how that works. You are mistaken or uninformed.
arkenstone [7:38 PM]
That's the problem here because team is programming orientated but there hasn't been alot done on business aspect of the token and marketing investor point big view
mak [7:38 PM]
That only explains the value of the ark codebase not the blockchain though
arigard [7:38 PM]
I think you seem to be trying to turn the argument in a seperate direction.
It's a simple question.
What gives the Ark token value.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:39 PM]
The market does. It's on 19 different exchanges.
arigard [7:39 PM]
Seems like you are being unhelpfully obtuse. I'll rephrase.
roks0n (deadlock) [7:39 PM]
so one thing that is clear to me is interoperability using ACES, where ARK is used as a “middleman” between two different chains, so if there’s high volume between those chains, it means the volume of ark increases as well .. what I’d like to know is how things will work with arkvm and how it will all work with sidechains (on eth, all the side chains will basically link back to the main chain which will be the one responsible for security afaik?)
arigard [7:39 PM]
What gives the Ark token value in the Ark ecosystem.
Blockhunter [7:40 PM]
Vote for Pedro he will make all your dreams come true
arigard [7:40 PM]
Eth is a gas, Waves is a gas. Ark is... what?
mak [7:40 PM]
ACES can work with any chains though. Doesn't have to be ark main chain. So I guess tomorrow persona can become the settlement layer for the Ark ecosystem and there's no incentive to stop it from happening.
arigard [7:40 PM]
roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM]
Mak, correct but if there are already lots of chains connected between ARK, it will be more appealing to link it through ARK directly
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:41 PM]
As I understand it, ACES could be using any given blockchain as the middle man...
roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM]
it doesn’t mean that it can’t be copied tho
arigard [7:41 PM]
But there are no chains connected through Ark atm
That have any real value anyway
roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM]
eth and btc are
arigard [7:41 PM]
And they can be connected through any Ark clone.
bangomatic [7:41 PM]
I'd love to hear the Ark team chime in on this discussion
arigard [7:42 PM]
So anyone can come along and make another chain that can instantly overtake Ark at this present time if there isn't a failsafe reason for Ark to be the defacto currency.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:42 PM] you can't keep saying things like this as if they are true.
That have any real value anyway
Posted in #generalToday at 7:41 PM
Blockhunter [7:42 PM]
Interoperability to the moon
mak [7:42 PM]
"it will be more appealing to link it through ARK directly"
Currently Ark is the only mature chain because it's been around longer but the moment persona or some other bridge chain gets listed on an exchange that dynamic is no longer there. So why would you prefer Ark over persona when that happens. That's the question as far as I understand it. (edited)
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:43 PM]
Persona has other goals, not duplicating Ark goals
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:43 PM]
@bangomatic Hi!
arigard [7:43 PM]
What current sidechain of Ark has real value/position in the crypto market? Persona?
bangomatic [7:43 PM]
hey @Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe)!
mak [7:43 PM]
The blockchain as a transaction medium doesn't care about secondary goals.
It still has all the capabilities that Ark has.
Colby [7:43 PM]
What has value right now? :thinking_face:
rob [ Ark Labs ] you can't keep saying things like this as if they are true.
Posted in #generalToday at 7:42 PM
arigard [7:43 PM]
Ark's ecosystem at present is not big enough to be a reason not to just take the tech and start your own.
To think otherwise is ludicrous.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:44 PM]
that's a fine opinion
Jarunik [7:44 PM]
it is harder than you think :slightly_smiling_face:
arigard [7:44 PM]
We aren't Eth with multi $100mn + start ups and even if we were, what's currently to stop one of those just overtaking Ark and leaving it behind?
Jarunik [7:45 PM]
i hope some ark clones get really sucessful to be honest :slightly_smiling_face:
Colby [7:45 PM]
Same here!
i hope some ark clones get really sucessful to be honest :slightly_smiling_face:
Posted in #generalToday at 7:45 PM
Blockhunter [7:45 PM]
mak [7:45 PM]
Same here but then there's no reason to hold Ark over something else
arigard [7:45 PM]
i hope so too if there is some reason for Ark to always be there at the top considering it's the Ark platform.
Colby [7:45 PM]
But the thing is that I am wondering, if ark clones get successful, what benefits does it give back to ark
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:45 PM]
@Jarunik to create an ecosystem?
mak [7:45 PM]
Right now we have to consider Ark's value not the other bridge chains
arigard [7:45 PM]
But if there isn't a reason for Ark to exist at the top, why are we all holding it?
Colby [7:45 PM]
Haha I think we are all thinking the same :slightly_smiling_face:
arigard [7:45 PM]
It's a terrible business plan
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:46 PM]
the point of BridgeChains is to allow new projects with no access the market a path to them through Ark, and hence gain value.
Other blockchains connections are through ACES, such as BTC, LTC, ETH, and more coming..
Persona has a way to trade Ark <> Prs
arigard [7:47 PM]
What is to stop them from getting their own exchanges in the future and just using Ark as a stepping stone to becoming their own platform operator?
mak [7:47 PM]
Sure rob, but there's now 10 different projects doing the same and they are faster in development than the ark team is
arigard [7:47 PM]
Blockhunter [7:47 PM]
Ark is the Yoda of blockchain and they need a better catchphrase. Better than ark gives no dates or point click blockchain
arigard [7:48 PM]
This attitude seems horribly naive if this is the value proposition.
mak [7:48 PM]
All of us believe in the vision that Ark brought us but I personally am not sure if Ark is the best option to execute that vision in time
arigard [7:48 PM]
The issue is, we don't know what the value proposition is.
mak [7:48 PM]
Other projects seem much faster
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:48 PM]
if you are into speculation, which it seems you are, then on paper all of your projects with no code are better and have more value than Ark
arigard [7:48 PM]
That's not true at all. lol.
Matthew_DC [7:49 PM]
At the most base level, ARK is a common currency token that is essentially automatically compatible with every bridge chain that is built based on ARK and is optimized for transaction volume and throughput to avoid bloat of other mechanisms introduced by the other chains. That is at the most basic level. By holding the ARK token itself, you will be able to enact the functions of multiple bridged chains both issued by our team and others. You will also be able to utilize the ARK chain as a pegged token to many bridged chains but that process will be transparent to users as it will be done behind the scenes without the user needing to do any functions. To think that someone will fork the code and generate a more effective ARK main chain means you have no confidence in the ARK team as the primary developer of the technology itself. In this case, if we are not and someone pushes a better version of the network, then I would argue maybe they SHOULD be chosen. That is the point of a free and open market. Not to mention the potential for registering and providing snapshot hashes to the main ARK blockchain to provide added security measures to a bridge chain with lower security due to lower market share etc, those are just baseline reasons.
As I mentioned the other day, at face value, consider this. What brings value to Litecoin or Bitcoin or Doge? In essence, ARK is a more effective currency and base network than all of these aforementioned networks with all of the added benefits being added for additional use cases.
roks0n (deadlock) [7:50 PM]
will ark based chains be bridged via arkvm?
goldenpepe [7:50 PM]
They cant be
You'd need the VM on both sides
Matthew_DC [7:50 PM]
I am currently on a conference call and have a lot going on so I can't respond too much.
goldenpepe [7:50 PM]
You can use AIP11's new tx types to do a sort of escrow between chains though i think
mak [7:50 PM]
@Matthew_DC Are you saying that the bridgechains deployed by ark-deployer don't have the same features?
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:50 PM]
ArkVM is not for bridging chains
goldenpepe [7:51 PM]
It can be
Coinme [7:51 PM]
And ICO's that will join Ark in the future will use it for buying their token.
goldenpepe [7:51 PM]
But both chains will need to be running the VM
Matthew_DC [7:51 PM]
The ARK main chain will have specific methods of allowing token transfer and utilization between chains to include quasi-centralized methods through aces, decentralized aces based intermediary networks, Time locked transfers, among custom built smart contract like logic built into the core technology itself that doesn't make the network susceptible to the bloat and mis-utilization an vulnerabilities of full VM use.
goldenpepe [7:51 PM]
(which the main ark chain wont be)
mak [7:51 PM]
"ICO's that will join Ark in the future will use it for buying their token"
Or any other bridgechain that's listed on exchanges
@Matthew_DC So will all of the bridgechains, no? I could start an ACES node today for persona and it will have no difference from what you describe.
Matthew_DC [7:52 PM]
@mak no, we promised ARK would be open source and everything we build for the core ARK blockchain will be open source.
arigard [7:53 PM]
You can be open source and still protect your value..
Matthew_DC [7:54 PM]
The point of ARK from day 1 has been to create a better base layer blockchain technology and protocol for everyone everywhere to be able to use to create anything they can dream up.
The ARK token is a core payment layer for the ecosystem including any applications we build ourselves, sponsor, partner with, or support.
mak [7:54 PM]
It seems like the team's vision for Ark is as a software product only and there's no business plan for the main chain. Which is fine but it's not explained as such. (edited)
Blockhunter [7:55 PM]
Great to see such active discussions
goldenpepe [7:55 PM]
I think what Matt is trying to portray is this:
A single universal Ark Ecosystem wallet holding ARK that has a nice UI with a list of dapps in the ecosystem
You select a dapp
You send a tx from the wallet using Ark
----------------Everything below this line is transparent to the user-----------------
The Ark transaction has instructions in the smartbridge field
The Ark gets converted to dappCoin via an intermediary like ACES (trustful) or a trustless escrow smart contract
The intermediary received Ark and uses the dappCoin on the dapp chain to do whatever it is the user wanted to do using the instructions in the smartbridge field
The dappchain responds to the request to the intermediary
Intermediary sends an Ark tx with the results of the dapp computation/action in the smartbridge field
---------------Everything above this line is transparent to the user-------------------
After 8+ seconds, user's wallet shows them the result of their interaction with the dapp bridgechain
That's where the value of Ark will come from
The Ark coin will be a universal "omni-coin"
Matthew_DC [7:56 PM]
:this: This
goldenpepe [7:56 PM]
That will instantly shapeshift into bridgechain coins to interact with the bridgechain dapp
mak [7:58 PM]
I understand what your point is and I agree it will work but only as long as none of the bridge chains are on an exchange
when for example persona gets listed on binance the scenario changes
and now either chain can become the backbone of the ark ecosystem
arigard [7:58 PM]
Yes. We see that. But hypothetically what is to stop a bridged Ark chain from becoming bigger than Ark and then going on to become that gateway? At this point it just seems to be hopium that the Ark network will always be the one people look to. But in one year, or two, or five, it might not be the case. What is to stop Ark being just sidelined if another team come along with develop on what Ark has built and propel it forward and take the mantle?
goldenpepe [7:58 PM]
What you say will be a problem only if the utility of the dapp coin is greater than the utility of the ark omnicoin
Would you rather hold a coin that can do one thing and is forever tied to a single chain
arigard [7:59 PM]
But in other crypto's an app becoming sucessfull is a benefit. In Ark's network it could be a negative.
goldenpepe [7:59 PM]
Or would you rather hold a coin that can interact with that single chain and 3232523432 others
arigard [7:59 PM]
But why can't another coin become an omnicoin?
If there are no limitations against it
goldenpepe [7:59 PM]
Why can't another coin become ethereum?
mak [7:59 PM]
"What you say will be a problem only if the utility of the dapp coin is greater than the utility of the ark omnicoin"
Or if it gives out better staking returns etc like persona because of higher inflation rate
goldenpepe [7:59 PM]
if there are no limitations against it
You can literally go on AWS right now and deploy an ethereum clone chain
arigard [7:59 PM]
It can, but an ETH token can't oust ETH
That's the difference. We are giving people an easy route here.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:59 PM]
do you often think your children should not surpass you? Or is that the hope?
Matthew_DC [8:00 PM]
Well it's about security, trust, potential vulnerabilities due to added functionality, the ability of the bridgechain team to create interactions and focus on use cases for their token outside of their core use, etc.
But that's the point of open and free markets
goldenpepe [8:00 PM]
There is a solution to your concern @arigard
Matthew_DC [8:00 PM]
What is to stop someone from being better than Bitcoin?
arigard [8:01 PM]
I think all these strawman arguments are fun, but they still aren't adressing the issuel
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
Instead of having Ark Deployer literally cloning the ark codebase, have it be a turnkey solution to run a layer 2 chain
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
You could go fork Ethereum right now and have an exact copy of the capability of the main Eth chain.
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
bridgechain dapps can be "colored coins"
that are forever tied to the main chain
arigard [8:01 PM]
Yeah but you wouldn't have those businesses on the chain.
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
but that would introduce bloat
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
So you are saying the utility of Ethereum is adoption.
arigard [8:01 PM]
And those businesses won't have the potential to become the main ETH.
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
Which is the case for the value of any token.
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
@arigard It sounds like you want ark to become Ethereum Plasma
arigard [8:02 PM]
I just want an answer.
Matthew_DC [8:02 PM]
How many companies are pulling their ERC20 tokens off of Ethereum because of the issues?
Colby [8:02 PM]
Yeah but correct me if im wrong
goldenpepe [8:02 PM]
There is no answer that will satisfy what you are asking
arigard [8:02 PM]
And i keep getting strawmanned.
Colby [8:02 PM]
Ethereum projects NEED eth for gas
Matthew_DC [8:02 PM]
We talk to people almost every day that are looking to leave Ethereum.
Colby [8:02 PM]
Ark is needed for?
arigard [8:02 PM]
Colby [8:02 PM]
This is all I am wondering, where does the ark coin fit into it
I love the idea
goldenpepe [8:02 PM]
@arigard You want ark-based coins to rely on Ark
The team wants the Ark chain to not be bloated
The solution to this is unironically ethereum plasma and sharding
Colby [8:02 PM]
but have been waiting for a while to know how the Ark coin will actually be used
goldenpepe [8:03 PM]
Shards in ethereum are basically "bridgechains"
arigard [8:03 PM]
Ok, and those teams might be big enough and clued up enough to eventually knock Ark from being the de facto omni coin. That's the worry.
If this is in fact the possibility.
Then it should be clear.
mak [8:03 PM]
"You could go fork Ethereum right now and have an exact copy of the capability of the main Eth chain."
@Matthew_DC Ethereum has value because all the dapps live on it which is not true for ark
arigard [8:03 PM]
Because as an investor it worries me, a lot.
I don't know where the value of Ark as an investment is 100% right now.
Jarunik [8:03 PM]
Ark is basically the inverse approach to Ethereum. Eth goes for big one-fits all first and tries to shard ... Ark is creating shards and then combines them
goldenpepe [8:03 PM]
There is no solution to what @arigard and @mak are saying right now
Literally no existing solution
Only proposals like sharding
arigard [8:04 PM]
And all this noise about defensiveness doesn't help. These are legit concerns.
Matthew_DC [8:04 PM]
When was it not clear that if a company comes along and builds a better more used product it could potentially take over market share?
That's how all free markets work.
You can't believe in open source and build and open source product without that risk.
arigard [8:04 PM]
But that isn't the same thing. Ark is literally building THE tools for people to then do that.
mak [8:04 PM]
@Matthew_DC Just to clarify I appreciate the work you guys are doing but I want to make an informed investment decision about holding the ark token
arigard [8:04 PM]
As a platform.
Jarunik [8:04 PM]
yes ... that is the idea how to grow
arigard [8:04 PM]
if you cloned Bitcoin back in the day you were a seperate currency.
Jarunik [8:04 PM]
provide good tools for others to create chains
arigard [8:04 PM]
This is a platform, its totally different.
And what we are discuswsing here is who runs that platform.
Matthew_DC [8:05 PM]
If someone launched an Ethereum chain right now and gained adoption there is a huge potential that all tokens decide to move their ERC20 tokens to the new chain and it becomes the new Ethereum and you have in essence lost all value because Ethereum is not capable of being used on the bridge chain as a currency.
ARK maintains it's value if for no other reason than the pegged value to any chain we personally create to include VM chain, token issuance chain, etc.
arigard [8:05 PM]
If it's built by Ark, does Ark always retain control? if not, why? What happens if Ark ends up building tools for a subsidary project that propels itself above them. Investors will just move to that coin.
Matthew_DC [8:05 PM]
Because it's an open decentralized system.
The problem is people don't actually believe in decentralization if it possibly harms their potential for monetary gain.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [8:06 PM]
we hope bridgechains get popular because that also means more for Ark in many ways.
arigard [8:06 PM]
You can be decentralized without being 100% altruistic. It's not mutually exclusive.
mak [8:06 PM]
@goldenpepe Since you guys claim that there's no solution for this how about I present one which @Matthew_DC can decide if it's useful or not. Make delegate voting for the ArkVM happen on the main chain. So anyone who wants to become a delegate for the VM needs to hold money on the main chain.
arigard [8:07 PM]
It just seems people are being dogmatic about this.
And if this isn't about investment. Why have an ICO?
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
Ethereum being the core chain for all ERC20 token based businesses centralizes the industry in a massive way. Not only is Ethereum itself centralized in the way it's mining structure was developed, but it also is centralized in that if the Ethereum network is compromised, thousands of companies assets and business are now compromised.
We don't believe that is the future.
mak [8:07 PM]
I'm not saying that this should be done for all sidechains. Just for the VM and it will be a special case.
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
We believe in a different business model.
That has been at the core of every description and explanation I have given from day 1.
arigard [8:07 PM]
Ok and that's fine, but my point is this should be made very clear if it's the case.
From the team officially.
goldenpepe [8:07 PM]
@mak now you're strawmanning me
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
Where is it not clear?
goldenpepe [8:08 PM]
I was addressing the fact that the idea that bridgechains shouldnt be independent and should be tied to Ark being in conflict with the Ark team's idea that the main chain should not be bloated with dapps
The only plausible solution to that right now
is Ethereum Plasma
yokoama (thefoundry Delegate) [8:09 PM]
mak [8:09 PM]
"We believe in a different business model."
I respect that. But it changes the ark's value proposition to just being a source of funding to the ark team and a means of speculation.
goldenpepe [8:09 PM]
Shards in ethereum are like bridgechains but the coins are all erc20s that rely on ethereum
Matthew_DC [8:09 PM]
People said ARK's DPoS mechanism would be a failure when we changed the voting structure because they said it wouldn't be secure enough. It has turned out to be massively secure compared to the centralized cartel run solutions of other DPoS chains. This is another fundamental issue where we believe we have a model that will work and will create value and thousands of use cases for the ARK token in a seamless way for the average user.
goldenpepe [8:09 PM]
and the shard blocks dont interfere or bloat up the "main" eth chain
mak [8:09 PM]
@goldenpepe I'm not suggesting deploying dapps on main chain. Just that the voting should take place there so there is always incentive to keep money on the main chain.
Matthew_DC [8:10 PM]
At no point did we say ARK was gas and have constantly made sure to outline the differences between ARK and Ethereum.
I believe the Eth model is flawed.
goldenpepe [8:11 PM]
The current ethereum model is flawed
If sharding works then it's going to solve a lot of its issues
(i dont hold any ethereum btw)
arigard [8:12 PM]
At no point have we actually had an updated white paper discussing this question in detail, clearly. It's not on the website and if it is it's buried somewhere in a blog post. The fact these discussions keep cropping up is proof of this.
nukacolaplease [8:12 PM]
I think we don't understand clearly what makes Ark important after the launch of the sidechains, Ark will be only an "exchange token"? The sidechain doesn't need Ark for operating
goldenpepe [8:12 PM]
+1 on needing a new whitepaper
Matthew_DC [8:12 PM]
replied to a thread:
This is a means of centralization of the network. Instead, by utilizing a form of pegged bridge chains, we can maintain a similar effect without creating centralization and reliance on 1 chain for others to properly function.
arkenstone [8:12 PM]
I think these things should be clearly written in a new WB and officially made public and promoted
goldenpepe [8:12 PM]
A new whitepaper would clear up so much FUD
pieface [8:13 PM]
Yeah I think a new WP is needed for sure
arigard [8:13 PM]
So don't start going "Oh everybody knows this, it's clear" Show me where on the front page of the website it tells you how the token mechanics will work in the ecosystem? It's not good it being on some powerpoint on a google drive, or hidden in comments in the slack.
mak [8:13 PM]
I though there wasn't going to be a new whitepaper.
arigard [8:13 PM]
It needs to be clear to investors how it works, exactly.
goldenpepe [8:13 PM]
I agree with arigard here
I only know what I know because I live on slack
Matthew_DC [8:13 PM]
The solutions are still in development and there are always opportunities to continue to adapt the model, that's why I have these conversations and ask for feedback regularly, but the core fundamental belief of how open and free decentralized markets should work most likely won't change.
arkenstone [8:13 PM]
Same here
goldenpepe [8:14 PM]
The vast majority of ark holders have no idea
they just bought bc of the cool red triangle
arigard [8:14 PM]
Stop playing cute, this is people's money you are asking for. So at least give them the benefit of being honest that there is no inherent business model reason why Ark will be necessary in the future.
And let them make their decisions.
roks0n (deadlock) [8:14 PM]
I agree, it took me months of following discussion on slack and digging around reddit to get information
arigard [8:14 PM]
With proper information.
mak [8:14 PM]
replied to a thread:
It's centralizing value onto one chain but doesn't bottleneck the ecosystem so I don't see anything being wrong with that.
Matthew_DC [8:15 PM]
replied to a thread:
I'm not arguing with you and I made a clear post here within the last 2 days that our website messaging is shit and needs completely redone.
If the ARK network is compromised or the consensus mechanism of the ARK main net is compromised then all subsequent networks reliant on that consensus would be compromised as well.
mad4thrash [8:15 PM]
In my opinion Ark's value come from (in the future) the fact that by holding one coin I can interact with every bridgechain plus any ACES services
Matthew_DC [8:16 PM]
So what I am saying is that we have to be cautious of these kinds of decisions and ensure that we aren't inadvertently creating attack vectors to take down partners, businesses, and other industries using the technology.
I'm sorry guys, I have to go, but I would love to continue this conversation on Reddit or here at a later time.
mak [8:16 PM]
"all subsequent networks reliant on that consensus would be compromised as well"
^ Correction: only the VM chain will be compromised since I'm not advocating that all bridgechains should vote on the main chain.
Matthew_DC [8:19 PM]
In an isolated case, if we can map it out and vet the concept, I'm more than happy to hear it out and have the conversation.
Solowatch [8:19 PM]
So I think we can all agree an updated Whitepaper is due
Matthew_DC [8:20 PM]
This is a community project and we are shaping pieces of it together as we continue to build. We have already made changes based on community feedback on many occasions.
So I would love to see someone post a proposal to reddit or even as an AIP at some point that we could discuss.
Jarunik [8:20 PM]
If you write a white paper it will be outdated soon :smile:
Solowatch [8:21 PM]
Well a V2 whitepaper shouldn’t be outdated soon
I don’t care about a V1 or V1.5 whitepaper lol
I want a whitepaper for V2 that’s clearly explaining all these concerns that the community has
arkenstone [8:22 PM]
Solowatch [8:23 PM]
I wrote a few questions down that I’ll post in here later today that @rob [ Ark Labs ] asked for. Please add to it if I missed anything once I do.
arkenstone [8:23 PM]
And I think now it's the time do it. Present it with full package on mainet launch.. (edited)
Solowatch [8:23 PM]
Or PM and I’ll add them before posting
mak [8:25 PM]
Anyways thanks for listening and responding @Matthew_DC. Some of us have been trying to discuss this with the ark team but didn't get much feedback until today.
arigard [8:25 PM]
Yeah +1
arkenstone [8:28 PM]
Alot of early investors are getting worried
submitted by moazzam2k to ArkEcosystem [link] [comments]

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